Unofficial Deunan's GDEMU Thread

Discussion in 'Sega Dreamcast Development and Research' started by duskdawn, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    I despise clones and will never buy one. I like Deunan and his products, but I don't have to suck up to him on every aspect of what he does, he's not a Saint.

    That said, as a businessman, assuming your potential customers to hold the moral high ground is naive. You live in the real world; you prepare for the real world.
     
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  2. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

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    And what makes you the expert on another's business? Everyone has opinions, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm sure you're just one of dozens who have voiced a "correct" way, all of which have had variations.

    Let's say you owned a business. I thought you weren't taking enough steps for loss prevention. I heard your store got robbed. I gave you unsolicited advise that you should have prepared for the real world with spike strips, bollards, motion detectors, and armed guards. Would you take my advise seriously? Did you even ask for it?
     
  3. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    Now you get it.

    I still think he should improve his production for the future and other devices, for his own good.

    Am I allowed to voice that out loud?
     
  4. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

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    I'm not aware of any laws being violated, so you can post whatever. But..

    Do you consider it polite to tell other people how they should run their personal business? Are you qualified to be offering business advice? Do you like being nagged on a topic despite the fact you've made it clear you don't appreciate it?
     
  5. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    He isn't here, so I'm not talking to him, and he probably should listen to people around him really. I'm doing an assessment, I'm not the only one to think that, maybe he could take a little of constructive criticism and try to improve his situation.

    Why are you defending him so vehemently?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  6. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

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    I don't recall saying anything defending current production levels, pricing, or course of actions. All I've said is the existence of bootlegs isn't his doing and none of the above would have mattered.

    Why are you offering up unsolicited business advice so vehemently?
     
  7. Muramasa

    Muramasa Rising Member

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    When you see someone sprinting towards a brick wall do you say something? It's the same thing here. He doesn't have to listen nobody has to listen, and it's entirely possible we are wrong. Plenty of people have warned about this type of thing though.
     
  8. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    Let me tell you the story of How I Met Your Wrath.

    I was reading those two posts and some similar ones
    Which happened to make me very uncomfortable because, and I can't stress this enough, I'm against the blatant theft of intellectual property and lack of respect for the work of artisans that clone builders exhibit.

    I then though to myself, "Man that sucks so bad for Deunan (who I like and whose work I've followed since the beginning of Makaron, 7 or so years ago), but it seems like the people are excited about getting the device in their hands, not having a cheap alternative. It seems like it's not the normal vanilla cheap clone situation."

    Then I remembered that his lack of stock and sporadic ordering methods were criticized for years by the very people that tried to get their hand on his devices and give him their hard-earned money. It also occured to me that a lot of people advised him to improve his manufacturing process over the years, but that he kept wanting to stay in his old ways. Which is a shame because this device is wonderful.

    Then I went on AG and shared my opinion on the subject, because that's what I do about Dreamcast stuff, and that's what forums are for: voicing your opinion and having discussions. To be clear, I didn't send dozens of emails to the guy, or harassed him over the phone. I just stated my opinion on a public forum. This is when you arrived.

    I'll skip over the rest because it's easy to read back a few posts, but grossō modō you disagreed with me in a way that suggested I endorsed the pirates. I thus defended myself against such accusations, trying to make my point clear; I may have failed on that last point.

    You kept on, and so did I.

    And this is How I Met Your Wrath...

    PS: I'd have composed it in iambic pentameters, but my English isn't good enough.

    PPS: If you read back my posts, you'll notice that I never attacked you, but rather tried to clarify my position, especially when I had the impression you implied I was somehow happy of the situation or on the pirate's side.

    PPPS: I do have experience with unsolicited advices and feedback; I've made quite a few free and open-source tools for the Dreamcast community and I've been in the beta scene for a while; I received my fair share, trust me. I must say that most constructive criticisms are actually nice to get sometimes and it can make me improve my programs quite a lot.

    PPPPS: Discussions about the pros and cons of GDEMU even led to me to developing a gdishrink option in gditools so that people with GDEMUs could fit more games on their sd-cards. All because I though GDEMU only real con was the lack of space (and availability, but that's another story).
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  9. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

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    I'm sorry if you got the impression I implied you were on the bootleggers side. That post was directed at those purchasing the copies and are making up explanations to try and justify it. That wasn't directed at any post of yours, which is why it didn't include a quote. I was just reiterating why these devices exist in the first place, not being the creator's fault.

    I'm sure everyone on the individual level thinks they're offering constructive advice, but look at it from an outside perspective. If everyone has a different answer on what's right, who's correct? Who's qualified to be offering advice regarding someone's personal business venture in the first place? Do you pay any attention to random spam offerings on how to run a business from home? That may seem like an unfair comparison, but think about it. It's a message that wasn't asked for, stating how a person should go about earning income.
     
  10. SONIC3D

    SONIC3D Spirited Member

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    I suggest people calm down here.
    Because there is no need to argue for those cloned products. This make everyone unhappy. Also waste our precious time.
    Those who finally choose to buy cloned GDEmu always have their reason.
    But for this thread, let's bring discuss back to the usage and technical aspect.
     
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  11. DBloke

    DBloke Huh huh "Member"

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    Where possible ill buy the product off the creator (EG All my Everdrives are official)
    Managed to get a Rhea off him in the past
    With the GDEMU and also the PSio I have tried to get them, but that has proved to be a bit of a smeg
    (Especially with the PSio, where I had one ordered and it got cancelled due to a cock up)
     
  12. Marmotta

    Marmotta Dauntless Member

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    OK, so I ordered one of the Chinese clones, mostly out of curiosity to see how well it works, which I must admit is flawlessly so far. I would have ordered an original GDEMU, as I have done for many, many Hi-Def NES, Ultra HDMI, NESRGB, Everdrives and even a USB-GDROM, and would prefer to buy from the creator, but I never been able to, so I completely understand that view from a lot of people, but I'm not going to criticise Deunan too much for it - I know from personal experience that the buying public are fickle and it can be very hard to gauge demand for a product.

    His response to it all is a bit much I thought, even though it must be a huge blow, this was always likely to happen at some point, whether it was a Chinese clone or another independent developer producing a similar alternative (one that isn't as expensive or hard to order, unlike USB-GDROM).

    As for the thread, although the above involved quite a bit of tit-for-tat repetition, it was still about the GDEMU, so I don't see any issue with it myself.
     
  13. Braintrash

    Braintrash Peppy Member

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    For the record, it wasn't aimed at you at all.
    Hope no harm done to you.
     
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  14. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    Here's something else he could do to mitigate the angry customers that turn to clones because they feel like they can't get their hands on a legit device:

    Open the pre-orders for a few days/a week and then draw the lucky buyers among those who applied. If someone doesn't pay up, draw another name in the remainder. This way he could both keep working manually like he seems to be fond of, and yet make his customer base feel like they have a chance to get their hands on the thing, limiting the amount of people turning to clones.

    I realise it's unsolicited advice, but I'm sharing my thoughts, thoughts that I've formulated because I care about Deunan's work and I think it's a shame what's happening with clones.
     
  15. Braintrash

    Braintrash Peppy Member

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    I may have missed that part, but no one concerned about quality?

    In France, they have the word "Chinoisium", which could be in English something like "Chinesium", ie. a device manufactured in China which is crap in every aspect (and obviously barely works, when it actually works).

    Now, before calling me a racist, let me tell you a real story I witnessed myself: a Chinese tourist, the oligarch kind, went to my local Ducati dealer, located near the Champs Elysées in Paris; mind you, it is a very expensive place. He shopped there like crazy, piling as many Ducati clothes he could until, when at the clerk counter, he had a doubt and checked the labels, eventually stating out loud: "I do not come in France to buy the shit (it's actual word) my country makes." Everything was "made in China" and al... He left without buying a single thing.

    So, well, many people will buy a clone, because it is cheaper. Then, they will have problems. It will break, it won't update, there will be problems, they surely will complain, and I will more than surely have a laugh at them. That will be well deserved to them.

    People complaining (and I still don't aim at FamilyGuy, which is the kind of members that makes Assembler great; no political pun intended) are just wieners. I don't know Deunan much, I never really talked to him excepted ordering a GDEMU to him. I have one of the first models, which I got very easily. First, since I am more action than talk, I knew about his project quite early. Anyone who read his blog was aware of it and hoping he would go commercial. Then, while putting aside the money I would need to buy it when available, I just subscribed to the GDEMU blog. I still get an email each time he posts something there and that's exactly how I woke up a morning, saw a mail, sent my order and got my GDEMU. That was that easy.

    If, as of today, you still don't have a GDEMU, you have IMO no right to complain. Not only aren't you a real enthusiast, but it also happens that the world belongs to those who get up early and if you can't get up early, upgrade yourself or give up and stay as the loser you are.

    I can't even imagine there is a need for that discussion. Even more, any people justifying the ordering of a clone should just be banned from Assembler and any other video game forum, not only because these people are the ones killing the real gamers scene, but also because a morals and dignity reinforcement is way too long overdue, and not only in the said scene.
     
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  16. truemaster1

    truemaster1 Gutsy Member

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    this saturday 9am san fransisco time the order will be open:) if i undrestand correct. also in 1.5 years i have bought 2 gdemus at first try so reading in his posts will help you get one
     
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  17. DBloke

    DBloke Huh huh "Member"

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    What site did you get it off?
    Been looking at this one
    https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...7.13066.91048.100200300000000&id=569409397036
    I have said on diffrent sites about the same subject

    Have a prepaid waiting list for such a thing, one per customer (bollocks to scalpers) at least then as he finishes one he will of already sold it
     
  18. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    Right now, the people talking about buying them are not breaking rules, but I agree with you. This place is about rare stuff and people making interesting soft/hardware, it's not about profiting from the hard work of others; either from fraudulent sales or by obtaining something for cheaper/better availability.

    Maybe we should ask @ASSEMbler (@ASSEMblergames_Admin ?) to update the rules so as not to promote clones of GDEMU, or of any actively commercially exploited ODE and flashcarts? (This would make clones of eventual abandoned-hardware ok) At least for community artisans, I don't know much about the FlashCart scene and it's clone or not situation.
    First give them a warning, then ban. OFC we won't look in your living room, but endorsing the pirates in any way should be frowned upon here.

    I think it's not racist to say that. There's certainly a subculture of high-volume low-quality manufacturing in China that's undeniable. There is quality stuff made there, but it's sometime much more profitable to mass produce low-tier stuff, because — worldwide — people are greedy and look at the lowest price. Combine that with a relatively recent capitalistic shift and ambitious-if-a-little-shady entrepreneurs and you get the current trend of copying and mass producing low-quality stuff for a big profit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  19. Braintrash

    Braintrash Peppy Member

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    I like the idea: documenting clones being OK (still a collector forum), but promoting them or worse, selling them, should be forbidden.

    Full disclosure: I don't care about racism. I judge people on their doings, not what they look like.

    I honestly miss the "Doctor" days. There was real quality into the stuff which was made in China and around (HK, Taiwan...). Now, it's just a perpetual tsunami of shit, which doesn't die because modern education mostly produces adults so clueless they don't even realize their diploma isn't worth a dog shit. If people knew better, Chinesium wouldn't exist.

    Although, a tool like the SX Pro, made in China, is of really good quality. I was properly surprised by the overall polish. Very clever design too.
     
  20. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

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    You should take your discussion somewhere else, because the device you're discussing isn't the GDEMU.
     
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