The original NES doen't have what it takes to even run super mario land!!

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Nitroiris, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Nitroiris

    Nitroiris Active Member

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    So, I was comparing alfred the chicken on the gameboy with the nes version, (Which is a direct port) and i noticed things like the stars on the title screen only lag on the nes, and not the gameboy, and thats not all, because when I started to play the game on the nes, I started to see some lag that wasnt present on the gb version. To test this, I was using fceux, with the the lag meter tuned on, and used bgb, while watching the dmg cpu usage bar, which hardely even reached the top. So this might be due to the nes being weaker than the gameboy, with the nes having a slow clock speed of 1.789773 mhz, while the gb has a blazing clock speed of 4.1942mhz! Almost 4 times more powerful than the nes, and even a little faster than the game gear. But I know that this is an unfair comparison going by the clock speed. But still, I am pretty convinced that the gb is more powerful, because of these things. Feel free to reply your thoughts. Also I am saying that the nes can't run sml, because super mario land already slows down on the og gameboy due to the poor coding, because it was a launch title, and if the game engine were ported to the nes, it probably will come to a stop before you even beat the game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  2. Nitroiris

    Nitroiris Active Member

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    I would like if someone would share their input
     
  3. sp193

    sp193 Site Soldier

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    But back then, games generally had to be specifically designed to work on the target platform. Not just because the platform might have been totally different in hardware design, but games were written in assembly. So I do not think ports would have been common.

    So if there are performance issues, it would have perhaps been a problem with the game not being well optimized for the console.

    The NES is also older than the Gameboy. So if it is weaker, it was indeed made with earlier technology.
     
  4. Bearking

    Bearking Konsolkongen

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    I don’t understand why this is posted in the modding and hacking forum :)
     
  5. Mord.Fustang

    Mord.Fustang Dauntless Member

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    sp193 touched on the fact that they weren't released at the same time, and you kind of also addressed the point in your first post that basing the specs purely on clock speed is unfair.
     
  6. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

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    You can really only compare clock speeds like that between processors with the same architecture, though. The DMG CPU does have a faster clock, but it takes many more clock cycles to execute instructions than the 6502 does.

    For example, the 6502 instruction that loads an 8 bit immediate value into the A register (LDA # - opcode 0xa9) executes in 2 clock cycles - the equivalent instruction on the DMG CPU (LD A,# - opcode 0c3e) takes 8 clock cycles. So in this specific case the Famicom would take 1.118uS to execute it and the DMG would take 1.908uS. - in general, comparable instructions are slower on the DMG CPU than on the 6502, but since it has a lot more registers many operations can take advantage of faster instructions that work between registers rather than using the slower ones that access memory.

    Overall, I would say a 1.8MHz 6502 is going to execute a typical instruction mix somewhat faster than the CPU in the Gameboy. The DMG has some other advantages, though - one is that it has a lower resolution screen (160 x 144) than the NES (256 x 240) - so the Famicom has to handle nearly 3 times as many pixels as the DMG does. On top of this, the DMG only has a 2-bit color (well, greenscale) depth so there is less data to handle per pixel. This is significant because both the DMG and the NES store their pattern tables in main memory and effectively share memory bandwidth with the CPU - but the DMG uses less bandwidth than the NES does.
     
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  7. MottZilla

    MottZilla Champion of the Forum

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    So you already know you're wrong, but you're still hoping you're correct? As people have told you before the Gameboy CPU and the NES CPU are completely different designs which cannot be compared by taking the cpu clock and saying the faster one is better. The two platforms are different and the gameboy being newer has several things they learned since they designed the NES. Also while you can maybe gain insight by looking at existing games, you're making assumptions that are incorrect. Alfred Chicken on NES and Gameboy are not the same game. The may have been (and probably were) programmed by different people who may have had different programming skills and experience with their target platform.

    Your other assumption about Super Mario Land shows you lack understanding about many things. Assuming you have enough time and a talented enough programmer that had the source code to Super Mario Land then there probably isn't any reason you couldn't make a port of it on the NES that performed reasonably well. I have not played that game in quite some time so I can't say for certain what features of the Gameboy it might use that could be a problem but I can't imagine there is anything you couldn't work around. And the CPU certainly doesn't outclass the NES like you seem to think. One example of a bad performing game doesn't represent the best that platform can do. I imagine there are NES to GB 'ports' that slow down on the GB but didn't have that issue on the NES versions.
     
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  8. Nitroiris

    Nitroiris Active Member

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    But there is an nes emulator for gbc and dmg gameboy out there. This means it has to be at least slightly more powerful, right? Because usually a system has to be significantly more powerful than the target platform to emulate it, right? Like I said, this isn't only on the GBC, it works on the original gameboy as well, because I used it bwfore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018 at 10:09 AM
  9. Bearking

    Bearking Konsolkongen

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    That emulator runs something like one twentieth the speed of an original NES. It proves nothing :)
     
  10. Nitroiris

    Nitroiris Active Member

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    So, does this mean the nes can emulate itself?
     
  11. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    One could argue that a computer is always simulating itself.

    From an information theory standpoint, a Computer with N possible states (amount of memory) can perfectly simulate — performances aside — any other computer with at most N possible states. That means that any computer can actually simulate itself. It might not have good performance though, or it might be so well optimised that it's actually doing noting special other than bare metal (as it's already itself).

    But it sure can...
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018 at 2:12 PM
  12. MottZilla

    MottZilla Champion of the Forum

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    Emulation and what it requires depends on how you are emulating and what you are emulating. For example if you are emulating NES on a system that supports a compatible or similar enough graphics system then you can save a lot of computational time by not emulating the graphics through software. PocketNES on GBA or PocketSNES on GBA/DS I think does this. Or you could have the opposite case with the PC-Engine. There are numerous "emulated" NES games available for the PC-Engine. The CPU is compatible with NES software so no CPU emulation is required. Instead there is an emulation layer that simulates mapper bankswitching, PPU, APU, and controller functions.

    There are also SNES roms of NES games being "emulated". I forget the name of them but they tend to be the NROM (no mapper) games and they tend to lack sound so they only emulate the NES PPU functionality on the SNES. The SNES could never emulate the NES in the same way your PC does where graphics are emulated in software. The same for the PC-Engine is true.
     
  13. sp193

    sp193 Site Soldier

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    The CPU alone does not make the console either. There are a lot of components that go into a console. Performance may be affected by how complicated the hardware is, the libraries that the developers had to use, as well as what you require the platform to do (vs its strengths and weaknesses). For example, the PS2 was designed for 3D rendering... but is not so great for software emulation since its EE is only 294MHz and you cannot really use any of the other chips for emulating a CPU core. But it has 3 paths for rendering polygons and a 128-bit instruction set, which perhaps makes it more awesome than a 300MHz Pentium II for 3D rendering.

    So when people say that platform X is stronger than Y, it is subjective.
     
  14. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

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    You're ignoring execution time, though - and that emulator is obviously running far slower than real time. As long as you have enough memory and you don't care how fast it is, you can in principle emulate anything with anything. In practice, you wouldn't be able to emulate the DMG on the NES without extra hardware, simply because the DMG has more RAM (16kB total as opposed to the 2kB in the NES).
     
  15. Arcadia

    Arcadia Spirited Member

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    There was "Super Game Boy" of sorts for the NES over at RetroUSB, but as far as I can tell, it was pretty much the hardware of an entire GB minus the screen cramped into a NES cartridge.
     
  16. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    I remember reading about that, it was actual GB hardware stuffed into a NES cart much like the SGB. Iirc Nintendo made a Wide Boy for the Famicom that did the same thing. There's a web page on it here.
     
  17. speedyink

    speedyink Site Supporter 2016

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    I didn't know about the famicom one, that's cool.

    BTW this thread title is so clickbait.
     
  18. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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  19. Nitroiris

    Nitroiris Active Member

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    So, I was wondering if the gameboy is more powerful than the sega game gear. Is it true that the gameboy is more powerful, based off of its clock speed alone, or does it have to involve a whole lot more than just that? I think that this should be an easy comparison do to the fact that they both are z80 processors and all, and what also gets me confused is, why do so many games lag on the gamegear, when the gameboy hardly has any games that lag at all? I know that the gameboy doesnt have a full z80 in it, and it is only a cut down version of it, but i read around some places stating that the gameboys cpu is one of the most efficient 8-bit cpus of the era, due to how it handles calculations. I also want to add in here that people usually come up with the common misconception that " the gameboy has an advantage because of its resolution and its lack of color pallete." but that statement is rubbish. This is because resolution doesnt take a hit on performance on old consoles like it does today, this is simply because of the way they handle screen rendering. Modern pcs and consoles would take a performance hit from a higher resolution because it has to render the image per pixel on a framebuffer. Old systems such as the ga,eboy and the snes and nes didnt need to draw to a framebuffer because it already had hardware sprite support that made it easier to draw sprites on screen. The system did not have to keep refreshing the image every time 60 times a second. The older systems also had hardware background scolling so, like i said earlier, that would make it easier and more efficient on the cpu and save resources for game logic. So, I would like to hear your opinion on this topic, and please, comment your thoughts below.
     

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