Sonic Xtreme - Magazine Screen Shots

Discussion in 'Unreleased Games Discussion' started by fusion, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. andrew75

    andrew75 Spirited Member

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    Hope no one else trys to contact Nick because it could cause us to lose a chance at the video.
    quote from sentient.com:tweets were made even favorited by Nick....than deleted...
     
  2. Cyantist

    Cyantist Site Supporter 2012,2013,2014,2015

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    That does make sense then. I didn't know the NiGHTS build was that early on. Thought it was during one of the later redesigns.
     
  3. andrew75

    andrew75 Spirited Member

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    Its not a Nights engine, its the sonic X-treme Boss engine modified, wish people would stop calling it a nights build, it does not have any Nights code.
     
  4. Cyantist

    Cyantist Site Supporter 2012,2013,2014,2015

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    It's semantics at best. AFAIK there isn't a known date for the build so "NiGHTS build" is far better than "that build that bares similarities to NiGHTS but isn't". It's just a coloquial name for the build.
     
  5. Druidic teacher

    Druidic teacher Officer at Arms

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    x
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  6. ave

    ave JAMMA compatible

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    What issue numbers were those magazines? Maybe I can skim through my mags as well and look for a report :)
     
  7. andrew75

    andrew75 Spirited Member

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    Okay guys one of my contacts has come threw for us!
    Without the lead over here on Assembler games and Shoemanbundy of Sonic retro's topic, we wouldn't have found this.
    Thanks !

    Metal sonic Boss clip at around 3:44 right after Nights.
    After many years of waiting ! Here it is !
    The metal sonic Boss fight presented by spooieVAULT of Youtube !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl6qhdJULY&feature=c4-overview&list=UUrEUisTffyW-PzJlrZ6zOGg

    Even with the find above ,, we still have a chance for a higher quality VHS tape ( although I doubt it would be much better)
    I still have a few contacts who haven't gotten back to me with their VSH copy yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  8. sr101

    sr101 Active Member

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    Oh wow, that's pretty incredible!!
    I can remember seeing screenshots of that build and wishing I could see it in action... Dreams do come true!

    (now someone leak that build.... :p)
     
  9. andrew75

    andrew75 Spirited Member

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    The Nights looking build with green hills seems to have some texture data that some guys over on my forums found but they could not re-build correctly because something key is missing.
    Also another friend of mine says that when the hill build was released, some data was removed to make the release smaller. If that's true than I bet that a lot of discoveries may be buried for quite a while.

    Seeing the Metal Sonic video inspired me to dig up the Metal sonic build Me and Xeniczone did in January 2010 (it was Made in game maker with Ult 3d plugin). Couldn't find the latest build with Metal Sonic's AI sadly.
    This build was for tweaking the realtime lighting effects for Metal Sonic. Would be kick ass if we could gain access to the rest of the assets needed to complete the project.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  10. mettleramiel

    mettleramiel Robust Member

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    Wow! I can't believe anyone found this! I'm expecially suprised since I know that I mentioned that show on this forum before and it just got buried in the responses.
     
  11. andrew75

    andrew75 Spirited Member

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  12. MBMM

    MBMM Powered by Pied Piper

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    Awesome video. Had no idea that was out there. Seemed as though it was being played on a standard Saturn, but I guess you can't really tell from just a controller. Hopefully someday an at least compiled build of Sonic Xtreme will surface. I watched a few levels on youtube and I actually liked the fisheye. Looked like it could have been really interesting to play. Too bad it was the only-PC version.
     
  13. f2bnp

    f2bnp Peppy Member

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    I rarely post around here, I've been mostly a lurker long before I even signed up. This is one of the games that got me interested in finding out how games are made and how they change through development time. Or you know, never get released due to development hell.
    I was a huge follower of Sonic X-Treme news since around the time the Saturn prototype was released. And because of this, plus extensive research, I have an above average knowledge of the development of this game, so let me shed some light into this, since a lot of people are getting things mixed up.

    Okay, Sonic X-treme started life as an experimental project and didn't really start getting worked on until development shifted to the Saturn. It was initially just some people, most of which had no experience in Sonic games or even games, trying new things out, without any clear direction, kinda like how most video game projects start out.
    So, it began life on the MegaDrive for a while, fooling around with isometric perspectives, then went on to the 32X (which wasn't out yet), then the "other" Sega console... It's basically a game that's closely tied to the technological advancements and SEGA trying out new things and seeing how they would move on from the MegaDrive to their next big console.

    When it finally settled on the Saturn, Sonic X-treme was still highly experimental. People were left to try things out. I can't remember the dates or a true timeline, but basically things went down kinda like this:
    There was not one single engine on which everyone was working on at any given time. Nowadays, because engines are so overly complex, most companies license other people's work (like the Unreal Engine 3), however, in the 90's it was typical for each studio to develop its own. It also was not totally unusual for the game to be using completely different engines during different gameplay segments.

    As such, the so called Boss Engine, done by Chris Coffin, initially only had to do with boss battles for the game. They wanted the NiGHTS engine at some point, I believe they got it for a few weeks, but they were told they could not use it because Yuji Naka happened :p. There is no screenshot or scan of the NiGHTS engine reworked to work for a Sonic game. I'll talk more about all the screenshots we have in a second.

    The tech demo that was released is apparently quite early, although I cannot remember or I just don't know if it was just an early test for Coffin's Boss Engine or the Boss Engine being modified to work as an all purposes / overall gameplay engine.
    Ofer Alon was another talented programmer who was working on his own thing. He's the one that had the idea for the Fisheye lenses or at least he is the one that first implemented this on an engine he was working on his own. However, this was being worked on a PC and by the time he tried to port it to the Saturn, he found out it was just too much for the poor thing.
    There was also this one company called POV that was brought in to provide a solution, a.k.a. a workable engine for the team that was on the Saturn and not on anything else (PC etc...). This was also apparently too slow? Maybe inadequate?

    So anyway, by mid to late 1996, pressure was getting on to everyone, since the game was nowhere near release. It was still quite prototypical in nature. People working on the game, basically split into two teams. One was Ofer Alon and Chris Senn (and other people too probably, again the teams were not something formal). They were still working on Alon's engine on the PC and they did a substantial amount of work before they called it quits.
    The other team, spearheaded by Chris Coffin, were apparently known internally as Team Condor or something. Coffin basically created an engine (or modified his existing one) that ran on the Saturn (AFAIR it did not implement any sort of fisheye lenses) and this was AFAIR (again) the team with the most people working on it. Unfortunately, we know very little of this!

    The screenshots/magazine scans we have can be categorized as follows:
    • Released tech demo (Green field with lone Sonic sprite)
    • Boss Engine (Nack the Weasel, Metal Sonic and Sonic CD style Timestone with rings floating around it)
    • Alon's PC engine (basically everything else)

    Yes, all those magazine scans are from Alon's engine. A lot of them are also altered digitally (photoshopped yo). I was quite shocked when I found out about this, since I always thought they were from Coffin's efforts. However, in late 2009, HXC leaked all of the assets and levels from Alon's engine. I had a long Skype call with two buddies of mine, as we were going through all of the levels individually. Slowly, we began to realize what was going on.
    Chris Coffin reached out to the fans a few years ago, when X-Treme was still popular, offering to upload the Condor engine, the one running on the Saturn. It is kinda late and I'm quite bored to search for it (I think it was on Sonic Retro), but she did upload a few screenshots, showing a 3D modeled Sonic and empty green fields. It is unknown at what kind of state the Condor engine was or how many levels there were etc.

    Unless someone is willing to reach out to her and she of course agrees to show us more, work on the Saturn for this game is still largely a mystery to us!

    I hope I didn't bore you the fuck out and actually made you realize a few things. Ask for elaboration, if you want me to well... elaborate on something :p.
     
  14. spinksy

    spinksy Peppy Member

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    As far as I have read - a load of 'sonic fans' were harressing her for the demo/engine and (so I've read) she even recieved death threats about it so she decieded to leave the whole thing alone and be done with it.

    This is only what I have read so I'm not sure......
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  15. f2bnp

    f2bnp Peppy Member

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    I've heard that too. It could be a possible explanation, although I've also heard she just got pissed off that someone was making money off something she developed (rightfully so if you ask me).
     
  16. Youloute

    Youloute Robust Member

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    I don't know if this video has already been linked here:

    Footage at about 1:53.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2015
  17. smf

    smf mamedev

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    I think that was more down to the code being written for the PC and just recompiled for the Saturn without too much time spent on making it work fast. I reckon it would be possible to do it better, given more time/experience and less management shitting on you.
     

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