Discussion in 'Unreleased Games Discussion' started by Barc0de, Jul 16, 2006.
Of course it's worth a try..but..how?
Even though it's since been rendered obsolete by the (naturally) far superior Dreamcast version, Yu Suzuki really should take more pride in the Saturn prototype of Shenmue because it really was the best 32-bit game there is - released or otherwise, in my opinion - with Panzer Dragoon Saga coming a very close second place! I'm not really sure how we could get in touch with him, but I've a feeling he would be more prepared to speak with a respected journalist rather than some kid on the street lacking that inside perspective of the gaming industry (such as myself, admittedly). However, does anyone know of some possible contenders for passing over the sort of questions we're desperate to ask? My best guess would be the Kikizo team, or perhaps even someone from Famitsu if we can set up a Japanese contact.
Anyway, thanks for that "new" video link. While it's clearly been recorded straight from the screen via direct feed (hence the surrounding border) as opposed to a conversion of the actual file, it's the first time I've seen many of the smaller details that now help me to further appreciate just what AM2 had pulled off back in the day on supposedly underpowered hardware. I'm now actually tempted to play around with frame captures to see if there are any other revelations left to find. After all, it was impressive enough to see characters boasting such quality polygon models and textures, though now it's clear their surroundings were lavished with the same level of graphics. Sadly, because of the nature of this footage, we don't really get to see much without manipulating frames... which I don't believe anyone has done before.
I still cant get over how good the graphics are on the saturn version. of course the DC version looked better, but watching footage of the saturn shenmue just proves how much more the saturn was capable of than most people thought.
My only concern is the prototype of Shenmue being like Panzer Dragoon Saga, where the only people you ever saw were necessary in order to progress. I loved the way you could roam around for hours just chatting to people without really going anywhere in terms of the story, but apart from that one brief encounter with Gui Zhang (where there are rarely pedestrians around in the Dreamcast version during such cut-scenes, anyway) how can we tell for sure if the 32-bit locations really were ghost towns? For all we know Yu Suzuki deliberately kept many of this game's best surprises from us... and not just elements previewing later chapters - I can only begin to imagine how the 70 man battle sequence may have looked on Saturn.
As for the overall graphical quality of Shenmue Saturn Version, AM2 sure learned a few tricks with Sega's proverbial old dog! Sadly, it was all too late for most, though at least we can appreciate their efforts. I still want to know if VF3 was comparable, since this also had plenty of scope to be just as impressive technically considering it was converted around this period. However, who really wants me to bring up that subject again? Let's contact someone and maybe get some answers!
people at Kikizo??
Sega won't reveal anything. This is insignificant to them - they're busy people, and will spend their time on one thing and one thing only - making money. Showing a bunch of fanboys some crappy old beta is something they won't be interested in. And anyone who works for them is still bound by an NDA - even those who don't work for them could be possibly.
All you do by hounding people asking them for betas is piss them off, and ensure they'll ignore you.
judging from the last games i think they can't be so busy... try contacting the quality control
haha! good point Karsten!
someone said at the typical youtube saturn - shenmue video that all the saturn material from shenmue was scrapped when they moved the project to dreamcast,,i asked him for proof..
cleared, just assumptions.
If all of the Saturn era material was destroyed when Shenmue moved onto the Dreamcast (some time in 1998, I presume), how come AM2 still had that prototype video three years later for inclusion in Shenmue II? Sega made a conscious effort - where possible - to preserve anything from the development stages of its software from around the MegaDrive period, though I do know of a few gaps in its archive. For example, when it came to referencing the source code for porting Virtua Fighter 2 as part of the AGES 2500 series emulation had to be favoured due to the original Model 2 data being missing.
I'm not exactly sure of where I read this first, but it was claimed the later games featured in Sonic Jam were partly rewritten because of certain assets disappearing over time. Considering the involvement of STI in Sonic 3's production and number of later leaks from the ill-fated Xtreme project, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if this happens to be true. Anyway, back to the other point I wanted to make... Clearly the likes of Yu Suzuki would be limited in what he could possibly reveal because of non-disclosure agreements, not to mention his personal involvement with the games being discussed here. As I've said before, we're probably best doing everything through a trusted contact such as a journalist who may have previous associations with Suzuki and AM2.
Of course, that's not to say we'll actually succeed in getting any new information - remember the edits made before Kikizo could publish its interview with Suzuki, removing all references to Saturn VF3! I know this is highly unlikely, but does anyone think it would be possible to see if Adam Doree would be prepared to share the full transcript of his previous and lengthy chat with the former AM2 producer, or do you reckon he's long since wiped this from history? Actually, I bet he reads it all the time, knowing it will only ever be for his eyes only!
Seriously, even those who've been told about such cancelled games are probably restricted in what they can say, just as their creators have to (sometimes reluctantly) live under corporate gagging orders. Besides, it's true in-depth research into prototypes and unreleased software isn't really a mainstream subject. In reality, we probably know more than some of the so-called "insiders," which has been proven in the past with certain titles. However, the biggest problem is that few would ever invest too much in showing off long-forgotten work, and in some cases those who are responsible for these holy grails - as we call them, at least - have long since moved on to better things with other employers.
Tracking down the kind of knowledge we desire might just be something best done alone (because someone out there must know something, right?), even if it means we do have to fill in a few blanks here and there. Still, if we can agree on the most realistic options then speculation doesn't always have to lead to us painting radically inaccurate pictures... though getting official confirmation with some details always helps! Because of this, maybe it's worth giving the approach method a shot, after all? What have we got to lose by trying to get in touch with those who should possess all the answers we need from an official point of view?
Just look at the seganerds forum.. someone talks about making an interview with AM2....isn't this a good chance??
It's possible that any playable material/code was scrapped, but they still had the VHS tape.
Actually, wouldn't the fact that the footage is captured from VHS give credence to that theory?
That theory is good...
But also think..... don't you mind that a work so big as that one, wouldn't have any "test-discs"???
Keep in mind they were struggling the saturn 100%,,, and sure they would want to test their work on a standard saturn more than often, to see how it works..
Sorry for my bad english this time, i'm in a hurry... i hope all you catched the idea.
testing often and discs don't mix. Think CD emulation for better results.
that sounds more reliable Barcode
Well this is seriously awesome but I highly doubt we'll ever get to play it.
too bad, but one never knows, life can change a lot...and a great offer by all the community to some insider can be really interesting..
One thing I spotted in that Saturn Shenmue video was that the Coca Cola branding isn't in there yet. It's not the fictional "Bell Woods" brand that was in the final Western versions either.
The early Dreamcast versions of Shenmue had modern day (well, 1998) textures of the Coke made products. In the final game the textures were replaced with those from 1984 or whenever the game was meant to be set. Also in the early DC versions, Ryo could look at the can in his hands and read the label. He can't in the final.
but can literacy is so important these days in games!
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