Saturn Shen-Mue & other unreleased Saturn talk

Discussion in 'Unreleased Games Discussion' started by Barc0de, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. Barc0de

    Barc0de Mythical Member from Time Immemorial

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,205
    Likes Received:
    23
    This should be an old topic that I imagine has been covered before in this forum, but since I m curious, I ll mention it anyway.

    Is the video of the Saturn version actually running on a simple (as opposed to a saturn with an add-on card) saturn (at full speed)? Some frame-counts and camera work etc suggest a development environment, or it might just be debug/test version?

    Knowing the saturn, I think we were all amazed when we first saw the Shen-Mue video, considering its 3d capabilities, especially to the raw polygon machine that was the PS1.

    Any technical info on the subject is welcomed :pray:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2006
  2. Druidic teacher

    Druidic teacher Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    129
    x
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  3. Borman

    Borman Digital Games Curator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    9,564
    Likes Received:
    2,221
    Im pretty sure theres a thread a few pages long on Shenmue
     
  4. Micjohvan

    Micjohvan Familiar Face

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    2
    If anyone can dig out the link to those few pages on it I would like much to see them.:pray:
     
  5. Borman

    Borman Digital Games Curator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    9,564
    Likes Received:
    2,221
  6. Barc0de

    Barc0de Mythical Member from Time Immemorial

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,205
    Likes Received:
    23
  7. sayin999

    sayin999 Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes Received:
    120
    well to sumarize, they used the saturns sound chip to add to assist in the performance. Its still pretty damn amazing for a saturn. Though I did notice the framerate was a bit low based on the numbers in the corner. As well the saturn game was going to be the whole story i believe and was going to ship on something like 8 discs.
     
  8. Barc0de

    Barc0de Mythical Member from Time Immemorial

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,205
    Likes Received:
    23
    well sega better get their act together and prep the next shen mue in the chapter. I d kill for the saturn version, that piece of software is a technical masterpiece from what we've seen.
     
  9. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirlâ„¢

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    221
    Yu Suzuki himself said that Shenmue Saturn Version is running on a stock Saturn, and to be fair there isn't much difference between this unreleased game and Panzer Dragoon Saga so it's hard to doubt his claim. In fact, some people have (wrongly) suggested in the past that both titles shared the same engine, when it has already been confirmed that Shenmue was being developed from the ground up long before Team Andromeda came up with their own effort.

    To be fair, I've played many games on the Saturn that ran lower than the 10-12fps Shenmue appears to average - including Panzer Dragoon Saga, which managed similar performance figures in places. Also, utilising the Saturn's audio processor for geometry calculations wasn't exactly new, as similar techniques had already been used by Sonic Team to produce the transparency effects seen in Burning Rangers. Clearly programmers were finding new ways to push the Saturn later on in its life, even if the results did come from in-house groups.

    Little is known from official sources regarding Shenmue in its 32-bit form, and since the Dreamcast incarnation was first known as Project Berkeley it's possible the Saturn version was still being produced under the even earlier codenames of Virtua Fighter RPG or Akira's Quest. Another point where many people become confused is with the rumour that "Shenmue" would have been released on eight discs, though even I once fell victim to this particular misleading aspect of the overall mystery.

    Never at any point has Suzuki or any other member of AM2 confirmed that Shenmue would have been released on the Saturn, let alone in the shape of an eight-disc set, though it is known that any product would have been a standalone experience (as opposed to the final Dreamcast version). The first disc of this game was nearly completed, and since this contained elements from what later became the first two 128-bit releases it has been speculated over time the remaining chapters would have fit equally over a remaining seven discs to form a single epic. Taking into consideration the fact Shenmue wasn't carried over to the Dreamcast until late 1998/early 1999, I doubt Sega would have been prepared to release such a large and presumably expensive title for a console it was phasing out.

    On the other hand, until we get the official word it's just as possible this was the plan after all - maybe Shenmue was Sega's way of letting the Saturn go out with a bang? Then again, if all AM2 had finished was just the first disc, it would take way too long to get the follow-up installments ready, so maybe by switching to Dreamcast they hoped to release the whole of Suzuki's vision for a single platform? How ironic...

    If anything, Shenmue might probably never be realised in the way Suzuki first intended. Even the second Dreamcast game's conclusion was restructured into a "cliffhanger" ending, which suggests that he must have known even that far back his story might never get the treatment it deserves. I can only hope the rumours of a next generation sequel that incorporates all sixteen original chapters (well, one less since the second part - Ryo's boat journey from Japan to Hong Kong - was meant to be referenced but never seen) are true, but what's the chance of that with Sega's current financial position? Come to think of it, hasn't it already been suggested elsewhere that a concluding installment is ready and now just awaiting a host console? Will the confusion around Shenmue ever really stop?
     
  10. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Lemon Party Organizer and Promoter

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    11,003
    Likes Received:
    92
    Sega makes money now... at least they did at some point after ditching hardware. Chances are better now of Shenmue III than they were in the final days of the DC.
     
  11. sayin999

    sayin999 Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes Received:
    120
    I think the 8 disc rumor probably stems from the fact that the two dreamcast shenmues use mutiple discs that are bigger then a standard cd. Part 1 and 2 i know were orignally one game but were split into two due to them having diffculties debuging the game, which yu suzuki admited was a nightmare.

    At the time shenmue was made most of sega thought they could make a big return off the dreamcast and still survive. Of course with its move to dreamcast shenmue was changed in some elements. Though really what would be most inresting is to see how different enviorments are on saturn. Based on the video the structure of ryos house and the town were quite different. Does anyone know if that video was made from a tape am2 alreayd made years earlyer?
     
  12. Druidic teacher

    Druidic teacher Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    129
    x
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  13. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirlâ„¢

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    221
    I've only recently discovered the wealth of Saturn programming information shared by Chris Coffin, and I now agree that Burning Rangers seems to use the same transparency hack that was mentioned in relation to the X-Treme project. Also, that's the first time I've read anything about VF Remix using the DSP for geometry processing - I was under the impression that game was little more than the original with a slightly better frame rate and texture mapping?!

    Examination of the final Dreamcast game has revealed that many locations in Shenmue were still getting changed long after development was moved from the Saturn, though from what I can tell at least the overall visual style has remained constant throughout its production. As for the actual tape, I'm fairly certain it was once mentioned that AM2 recorded the footage especially for its appearance in Shemmue II as a bonus feature based on the code stored in their vault. Whether this exists on a playable disc or backup tape is another mystery completely, and considering how secure AM2 has been so far I doubt we'll ever get to play a leaked copy anyway...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  14. Druidic teacher

    Druidic teacher Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    129
    x
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  15. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirlâ„¢

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    221
    That's definitely something new and interesting - just when I thought there was nothing fresh to learn about my favourite console! So much for VF Remix being little more than an upgrade of the original game...
     
  16. pedrot16

    pedrot16 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    where can i read that info??
     
  17. madhatter256

    madhatter256 Illustrious Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,578
    Likes Received:
    4

    I think so, too. But I think it is because the audio would be in wave format or something similar because if the Saturn were to decode MP3 on top of pushing that many polygons, etc. it would definitely not cut it. And I think the fact that what Yu Suzuki wanted was so grand that making it for the Saturn just wasn't going to cut it because of a lot of hardware limitations. With such limitations, we wouldn't have gotten the shenmue we have now, or at least a lot of extra nice features wouldn't be included. Don't forget that Shenmue, since its inception, was over $8million overbudget. That includes the transition from Saturn version to the DC. I remember reading that it was originally $2million from EGM. Success in the USA was a key role in allowing the sequel to me developed.

    Also, if that video demo of Saturn Shenmue also used the Audio chip for some graphical power, how will it be able to do the sound, then if the chip is doing something else?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2006
  18. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Lemon Party Organizer and Promoter

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    11,003
    Likes Received:
    92
    The official word in Japanese news (real news sources, not gaming news) was 300 million yen -- at the time, about 2.8 million USD. My wife actually told me that, and she knows nothing of games.
     
  19. Barc0de

    Barc0de Mythical Member from Time Immemorial

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,205
    Likes Received:
    23
    either that or she pretends not to know:p
     
  20. Sienar

    Sienar Robust Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    6

    As for playing a leaked copy, maybe not.

    But there is one in a collectors hands. The escapist even mentioned it in an article on collecting rare games.
     

Share This Page