Saturn Optical Drive Emulator

Discussion in 'Sega Saturn Programming and Development' started by jhl, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    625
    You are defending yourself (and deunan) with a passion when nobody attacks you. All we say is that those current devices aren't cheap, that @jhl specifically stated he wanted his one to be affordable, and that he knows what's he's doing because of previous experience.

    I like deunan's devices, gdemu is as good as it gets, but I sure would appreciate competition in the niche and more affordable and obtenable devices.
     
  2. Droid III

    Droid III Rising Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    41
    It's such a shame it couldn't load 4mb roms though. The one single Gameboy game I wanted to play, that barely even works on emulators, did not fit on the card.
     
  3. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    573
    I notice that you seized on the part of my comment that you could possibly counter by arguing I wasn't listening to what you were thinking rather than the much more significant part - which was that your assertion that the complexities and difficulties involved in getting something into production might be an unknown area for him was an invalid one because he had already got something into production.

    And this is a discussion board - to a large extent speculation is what we do here, so attempting to characterize it as some sort of vice seems a curious position.
     
    -=FamilyGuy=- likes this.
  4. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    37
    If deunan's devices were priced at 80, folks would complain that they should be at 60. Just how this hobby works. Instant gratification prevents saving of funds.
     
    SegaLife and jopamo like this.
  5. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    625
    To be clear, I'm not even saying that they aren't worth it. The time, parts, and research involved certainly warrant a reasonably high price. Regardless of fairness, it's just that 160+$ is a lot of cash for most people to spend. (Well maybe less so for some people on AG, but still).

    Also, I feel like deunan and mnemo could probably professionally manufacture some big batches instead of handling it manually in small quantities. They could lower their own workload while being able to sell more devices for cheaper and still make more money. It would cost them more upfront, but that's the price of an economy of scale.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    Korn16ftl3 likes this.
  6. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    573
    Yeah, I think it had 4MB of flash on it, but for some reason only 3MB was available and 1MB was reserved - doubtless for some nefarious internal purpose!

    The other significant restriction was that it basically only supported MBC5 games - it's still a nice product though. I thought the FRAM was an especially nice touch.
     
  7. jopamo

    jopamo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    1
    I wasn’t defending (or attacking) anyone here. I’ve got a full-time job, a family, and a mortgage (like many here), and it’s not my first choice to stay up watching my email notifications for video game stuff at 3am.

    The last time I ordered from Deunan, the product arrived in a soggy mess that was wet, dirty, torn AND TOOK NINE WEEKS to arrive (with no tracking). Bubble-pack envelopes are really NOT how things that expensive (and rare) should be shipped.

    Yes, he wants to keep shipping costs low. Yes, he wants to keep overhead low with small batch production. However, if he’s already employing people with assembly duties, can’t the current “hop to it, bitch!—then wait” ordering system be improved with additional resources? Sure! All it does is artificially inflate the hype surrounding his products to keep them relevant. I can only hope that this new device will induce Deunan to rethink his distribution strategy. Trust me when I say “his butt is not mine to kiss.”

    That said, my argument to Plavix was merely against him putting a device down on availability and pricing—something that can’t argued until BOTH products are in the market.
    As would I.


    ...or perhaps I needed not refute the other part of your comment, because I didn’t disagree with it. However, you stating him not “gouging” anyone indicated that you never really acknowledged the sentiment of my previous comment, in your comment. That wasn’t cool.
    I didn’t assume that they were an unknown area for him. Every project is different. Take for example the fact that parts for a product commonly need to be sourced with different suppliers. Last-minute supplier pricing changes, contractual conflicts, snags in manufacturing QC, and/or material(s) constraints... these are just a few of the many variables that can affect final product delivery schedule AND price. Just because someone’s done something before, doesn’t necessarily mean it will all go to plan for the next project.

    That said, I—again—never implied that this man would do anything intentionally unscrupulous to the Saturn gaming community. Basically what I’m saying is: “sometimes, shit happens.” I worked in global supply management for two tech companies, so this isn’t uncommon (even for big corporations).
    No one is characterizing speculation as a sort of vice, or anything thing else negative. Speculation, in this context, merely has questionable validity...and can therefore be misleading. As I’ve mentioned above: “shit happens.” No one can truly say what the pricing on this thing will finally be until its release.

    It’s also a curious position to slam someone with salient points. But this is a discussion board, so I take it for what it is...discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  8. Greg2600

    Greg2600 Fiery Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    68
    The Prof. provided quite a long-winded update the other day, mainly explaining the long delay he's had lately. Apparently he has had 3 major issues to fix, and spent a lot of time on them. However, he realized these were not required simply to get the Beta units out.

    1. How to get ABC+Start to reset to the menu? Basically, since doing so in-game will just reset that game, you need to hide the code somewhere in memory. He says it will be fixed, or since the OS code will be open source, someone could do it.

    2. There is OS, which is easy to update, and there is MCU (his ARM CPU) firmware, also easy to update. However, he's already running a CPLD (logic chip), and this one can only be updated with a JTAG. However, he feels pretty good that his logic is sound, and probably won't need to be updated. So, he's also putting that on the backburner.

    3. He was intending to assemble the beta units (25) at home, but has come to senses and will have the PCB's manufactured professionally.

    In any event, I would have to assume he's probably weeks or month or so out from shipping the Betas.
     
  9. Atolm

    Atolm Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    37
    I've never seen GDEMU ask anything of anyone, other than to leave him the hell alone. The amount of entitled people that nag the guy just goes to show how toxic some of this community is. The guy has his own thing going, he isn't asking anything of anyone. If you don't like the terms of his sale, don't deal with him.
     
    Yakumo likes this.
  10. arnoldlayne

    arnoldlayne Resolute Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    75
    Aside from the price (justified, as explained above many times over) which is still out of my budget - who else keeps checking the site (the wordpress one) periodically over the years and NEVER seen the pre-orders open? I've yet to randomly visit the site and the actual pcb's are available... I mean never.

    I do hope someone comes out with an affordable alternative - around 60-80 euros - and whoever does should clean up pretty quick. I'm still surprised the Chinese haven't cloned them yet. Not so much the Saturn - but the Dreamcast was big over there, selling loads of units.
     
  11. Zeigren

    Zeigren Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    78
    I'm curious if they'll try to change over to a different CPLD now that the MAX3000 is an obsolete part. Might be worthwhile to do now rather then having to do a redesign later and needing to support two different boards. They should be able to get the MAX3000 for quite awhile though and could just stock up.

    I think some of the MAXVs are 5v tolerant but that might only be for the expensive ones. Xilinx's XC9500XL CPLDs are 5v tolerant though. Of course could just use level shifters with some other CPLD.
     
  12. subbie

    subbie Guardian of the Forum

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    94
    Ok this is your guys only warning. Please stop the bickering and complaining about entitlement and people. I've removed some post but if some users keep it up I will be handing out temp bans for it.

    Lets keep it civil.
     
    almmiron, jopamo, Greg2600 and 2 others like this.
  13. tiff_lee

    tiff_lee Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    The developer behind the PSIO has expressed interest in making a ODE for the the dreamcast but I think he wants to fully roll out the PSIO (which should be very soon....), details on the support forum
     
    msimplay likes this.
  14. Zeigren

    Zeigren Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    78
    I imagine like many of us someone in China keen on reverse engineering it can't get their hands on one either.
     
  15. Bramsworth

    Bramsworth Well Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    316
    A couple questions if anyone is still looking at this topic.

    Is the guy in the video's idea for something that lets you make music on the Saturn's FM chip still happening?

    If someone were to make a homebrew game that they wanted to sell someday, is this thing the only answer? I assume that thanks to the copy protection you'd either have to resort to telling your customers to use a modded Saturn for their pressed disc they bought that's no better than a CD-R, or you'd tell them to make sure to have the Satiator on hand so they can just DL and play on their console with USB.

    It'd be cool to think especially with the active development of Jo Engine that we may see a renaissance akin to how the Genesis dev scene is slowly growing, but having physical media to feel like you made an actual release on the system looks like it's never going to happen unless you want to sell jewel cases with USB sticks in them. Am I wrong?

    Sorry if this doesn't exactly fit this topic.
     
  16. jollyroger

    jollyroger Peppy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    208
    Or people can use the swap trick... hardly elegant, but people have used it for a long time.
     
  17. Droid III

    Droid III Rising Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    41
    The cheapest option would be bundling a pseudo saturn cart with whatever game you'd want to sell. It would increases costs substantially so you could make it an optional thing to order.
     
    jollyroger likes this.
  18. MottZilla

    MottZilla Champion of the Forum

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,017
    Likes Received:
    87
    Properly manufactured factory pressed CD-ROMs are better than any CD-R. When manufactured and stored correctly their lifespan should far exceed most if not all CD-Rs. So even if your unlicensed game required bypassing security via swap trick or modchip it would still be better than a CD-R.
     
  19. Marteicos

    Marteicos Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Games behave differently depending when you press ABC+Start. During gameplay it resets to the Title Screen, if you press the combo again on Title Screen the software stops and the CD Player reloads. It happens with most games (if not all of them) I played. Probably only a title's screen ABC+Start should reset to menu.

    Also, if you press ABC+Start On cd player screen the current date and time appears briefly on top side of the screen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  20. Droid III

    Droid III Rising Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    41
    The ABC+Start soft reset was, I think, a requirement by SEGA, so all commercial games should have them. The only stuff I've seen that doesn't do it are homebrew titles.

    There are a few games where the reset is remapped to XYZ+Start, possibly because the game requires you to press a+b+c during gameplay too. Or just because the devs like that better. Treasure games do this, Guardian Heroes even has an option to select either, I think.
     

Share This Page