Discussion in 'Off Topic Discussion' started by skarpo01, Dec 8, 2016.
Ooo an industry magazine. I love those things.
I have worked in the industry and I can tell you that 90% of operators do not care about the condition of their machine, they just care about coin drop. If a small part of the machine breaks, they aren't going to get someone in to repair it, only when the machine becomes completely unplayable will they even consider getting someone in to fix it and even then they do so begrudgingly. The money they offer is pitiful, which is why so many have started working in the collectors market instead. It's pretty much the same reason why there's hardly any left out in the wild any more, the ongoing repair costs, huge upfront cost and limited coindrop make them very undesirable even when compared to a kiddie ride, let alone a crane.
For example, I once had to put up with an operator give me a 10 minute lecture about how this table had cost him 2k and it had taken 18 quid in the last two months, after I pointed out that he had used a slingshot rubber on a flipper. He couldn't care less if it was a 50p repair job, he wasn't making any money either way.
Sure, I understand that, of course there are some good people out there, I named one that I find reputable myself. But I could give you dozens and dozens of UK dealers that aren't.
The market is littered with dealers who buy cheap from the collector market, wipe a dirty rag over it and then triple or quadruple the price they paid and sell it to the rich guys gamesroom market. As noted above, this sort of behaviour is completely killing the hobby, hence why I would suggest only buying from the reputable ones, such as Pinball Heaven.
You understand that with even a brand new pinball machine from Stern, fresh out of the box, you will only get a 30-day board swap warranty? In the UK, the law is 'fit for purpose', you aren't obliged to offer any sort of warranty whatsoever.
Most of the UK dealers do not offer any form of warranty on a second hand table, if they do have a 'free warranty', the engineer visit is chargable, which they inflate to cover the cost of the parts anyway. As an example from Home Leisure Directs '1-Year Warranty'
My point is, it's simply not worth paying the inflated prices for 'peace of mind' because there simply is none. For the price of a dealer machine, you could buy 2 or more identical machines from the hobby market *and* still have money left over for a yearly home visit from an engineer.
You might argue that places like Home Leisure Direct are supporting the hobbyist industry by keeping parts available, but that's simply not true. By and large the vast majority of parts are shipped in from Europe or the United States as they are needed, from the same places that the hobby guys buy them from anyway.
Gamesroom dealers prey on the second hard market and artificially inflate prices in the hope of a rich man sucker will come along and this is affecting the hobby market. That is the main reason why I would never suggest someone buy a second hand table from a dealer.
Yup, as I said - keeping them in working order, not tip-top condition. Most OPs want their machines to be serviceable, or they won't get coins put in them. Likewise, I make decent money from site repairs and I choose not to take on more jobs. And our vintage machines are very popular (that's speaking more for arcades than pinballs generally, but still).
Err... again misreading what I said.. more obliged does not equal MUST. As I said, reputable dealers offer warranty. Even Williams offer a warranty... although I've had to repair his machines that were under warranty before.
You're completely wrong about a new product. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, new goods MUST be offered with a 6 month warranty against defects... in other words, must be repaired or replaced. Within 30 days, you can get your money back. The Sale of Goods Act has gone.
Go to a decent supplier. We offer a three month warranty on second hand machines/tables. WITHOUT EXTRA SERVICE CHARGE. I get my fee still, of course.[/quote][/QUOTE]
Err wut? Obliged *does* equal MUST?
The vast majority of tables sold in the UK are second hand, so this doesn't apply in those situations. Bear in mind as well that this does not cover 'wear and tear', which would cover a large amount of faults on pinball tables.
Ah it all makes sense now, you work for a dealer so of course you'll defend them. Care to mention which one you work for?
Sorry, missed this....
Misquoting me again. I said "more obliged". And this is in the moral sense of the word. As in... Sony sell the PlayStation 4 for £230 so Microsoft are more obliged to follow suit with Xbox One.
Why are you backtracking? You said:
I told you otherwise, and you backtrack and say "well uhh.. most are second hand, anyway!"
What's not covered by wear and tear? Much like second hand cars!
Actually, I work for myself... but one of my clients is an OPERATOR and also sells machines and I often represent them in my work. And no, I won't disclose client details.
The fact that you seem ashamed to admit who you work for, even when asked privately, makes me suspicious.
I'm not ashamed. I don't reveal my clients' information, regardless of who it is. I don't do anything to jeopardize my contracts - who I do jobs for is my business, not anyone else's. We deal with celebrities and major companies and have strict confidentiality agreements sometimes. I have been to secure locations, even had to have an escort at all times once. So, you see, I can't tell you anything about my clients.
And you didn't ask privately, you pointed out that I still haven't answered.
Separate names with a comma.