Old PAL SNES - What's the best mod?

Discussion in 'Modding and Hacking - Consoles and Electronics' started by Batzarro, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    Hi,

    I've been looking into modding my Super Nintendo, but there seems to be a lot of mods out there, it's confusing. Also I find forums talking about them and then notice the posts are from quite long ago. Here's the details;

    PAL (UK)
    1992 Nintendo
    SNSP-CPU-02
    SNSP02

    So from the looks of it, it's not one of those good 1-chip ones. I'd like to mod it to play all regions and also 50 / 60Hz, I haven't looked into this part yet, but I assume that's not the hardest part. The things I've been looking into are the video output mods. Looks like I can get better image quality out of 1 chips, but what's the best choice for this older one? I did find the existence of a mod which gives you component out, but the info on it seems quite old, and the forum thread I was reading hadn't been updated in years. Also the last posts seemed to be of people saying it had issues and was a bit dodgy. Oh I should mention that this console will be used on a CRT with a scart cable, though if component turns out to be the best choice, I'd run it on a modern HD screen, or convert that component to RGB scart (if that doesn't make it just look crappy again). So what do you think is the best choice? The videos I found on it are;




    At least the second one is recent. Thank you for your time.
     
  2. Pikkon

    Pikkon "Moving in Stereo"

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    Think I have the same pal snes that I modded for component,if you need help with that let me know.

    On my trinitron running snes via component has better color but when running rgb it's sharper,also does your tv support low res with component,like 240p/288p.
     
  3. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    Why do the component mod when the PAL SNES already has an RGB output on the multi-out? If your TV has RGB SCART, just get a PAL SNES RGB SCART cable (make sure it is for a PAL console and not an NTSC console). There is an RGB bypass mod that you may be interested in, however. It basically taps RGB before the console's encoder chip, giving a much sharper image.
     
  4. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    Oh great, thank you. I have some other Super Nintendos, they're in storage though. I'm going to find out what models they are when I get the chance. When you say does my TV support 240p, you mean on the more modern TVs, right? I have a few monitors, the main one I'm using (mostly for HDMI) is... I'm not sure if it does support 240p, that is quite low for a modern screen isn't it. I've read that some don't support it. Oh wait, this monitor doesn't have component anyway. I'll probably end up converting component to VGA anyway.

    TBH now that I think about it, I'm mostly wanting to do this to get a better picture on CRTs. Yes help would be great, thank you. If you have any links to guides and stuff I need (unless it's just wires and solder). I've seen quite a few mods have small PCBs now, if there's a nice clean mod that uses one of those, that would be good.
     
  5. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    The one you said I might be interested in, yes that does sound interesting. Yes what you said about the RGB output through RGB Scart, that's what I already have. But I've seen how the later 1 chip SNES outputs it better, so I was wondering if there's a way to improve that? That bypass sounds interesting.
     
  6. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    Yeah, we meant with the modern ones. If it does display, chances are that it is incorrectly processing it as 480i. There are some modern displays that can process it properly so you'll have to see. Best way is to use the 240p Test Suite or hook a Mega Drive and Sonic one up and get a chaos emerald.

    Also, if your TV or monitor has a VGA connector, you could use a sync splitter to connect the SNES since that uses RGBHV instead of RGBS. 240p support over the VGA connector isn't as common as component though. Worth a shot anyway and you could even use a sync stripper circuit to make a basic splitter (that would be needed anyway since C-Sync was replaced with 12V on PAL units). Sync on Luma cables are the preferred method for PAL SNES RGB cables nowadays.

    Here's a link to the mod: https://github.com/borti4938/SNES-AddOn-PCBs/tree/master/RGB Bypass. Scroll down until you see the 3-Chip-SNES section. Your model is listed under there. Luckily for you, it's been successfully done before and there are instructions. Unlike my NTSC SNS-CPU-GPM-02... you may have to assemble the board yourself but there are modders selling pre-built units out there.
     
  7. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    Thank you. That RGB Bypass board is for use with an RGB scart cable, right? It's not a version of that component mod where you add the 3 sockets in the back. If this is the case, that's fine with me. So this RGB Bypass, if installed successfully, sharpens the image a little?

    Also, do any of you lot know any good guides on making good scart cables for Mega Drive and / or Super Nintendo? The ones most ppl recommend are rather expensive, and I have quite a lot of scart cables laying around, some of them appear to be pretty good quality. I also would like to know simply because I'm interested in learning about this stuff.
     
  8. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    Yes, it provides a better signal than the onboard RGB. The bypass board is installed inside the console itself. It bypasses the RGB encoder chip on the motherboard, providing a better RGB signal. After you install it, cut the traces for the RGB lines on the Multi-Out and wire in the outputs of the bypass board to the RGB pins on the Multi-Out. I must warn you, I've never tried it before.

    Guides, no but here is a good pinout diagram for you. Just wire it according to the diagram. The SCART head has numbers next to the pins on the physical connector if you need a reference. For the MD, it is recommended to use composite sync (C-Sync; Pin 7 for Model 1; Pin 5 on Model 2) instead of composite video as sync. Something about it reducing jailbars significantly. My cable is wired up for C-Sync and I can't see jailbars unless I put my face extremely close to the PVM. Though I think you need to add a 480 ohm resistor to the C-Sync line in order to bring it to TV levels. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can elaborate on this.
     
  9. Pikkon

    Pikkon "Moving in Stereo"

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    I just made a scart cable for the n64.

    The best is to use a nice shielded cable to avoid any video interference/audio buzz but I use c-sync or luma but on my rgb modded trinitron composite video sync looks fine to me as well.
     
  10. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    This is some great info, cheers. I'll read more into this and probably order a few things. I will report back if I get anywhere.
     
  11. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    Looking forward to it. Do let us know what happens!
     
  12. Xaranar

    Xaranar Rapidly Rising Member

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    I would recommend some kind of NTSC mod for your SNES, I know they do exist but I'm not sure if a proper, dual frequency oscillator type solution exists that will net you the proper timings. The 90s were not kind to us here in PAL territory.
     
  13. Ergot_Cholera

    Ergot_Cholera Flaccid Member

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    Supercic.
     
  14. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    It's going to take me a while btw :p I'm also digging into my parents garage to see if I have any 1-Chip SNES's. Ive found 1 more so far, will have to take it home before I open it, but it looks really old, so it's prob gonna be yet another 3-Chip. Also... I found A LOT of beat up Mega Drives.

    Wow that sounds far more complicated than modding Mega Drives to be 60hz NTSC!
     
  15. Pikmin

    Pikmin Resolute Member

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    I have the same CPU-02 and I've installed the SuperCIC mod, this allows me to play 60hz games, and get past any protection, however to play these with proper timing you need the NTSC crystal as Xaranar said. I'd love to see what the difference between the two is.

    I haven't seen much info on that other than the 1CHIP ultimate kit that Bad_Ad84 sells, not sure if you can do the same with the SNSP-CPU-02
     
  16. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    Interesting, I'll have to look into that.

    I've found some more Super Nintendo's, in the loft this time though, which is good because it's dryer! I think this ones gonna be another 3-Chip though, as it's very yellow and it's the SFII release, which was pretty early. I can also see the 3 dots inside the expansion port, which apparently also makes it likely 3-Chip. I'll only know for sure when I get home, as the right screwdriver is there. Boxed though! sfiisnespal01.png
    Is there a chance at all that any 1992 Super Nintendo's are 1-Chip?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  17. Ergot_Cholera

    Ergot_Cholera Flaccid Member

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    No. 1 chips weren't released until 95.
     
  18. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    Oh damn, that's not good. Found several more but they're pretty much all 1992 I think. So I don't even need to open them because it says the year on the back. Oh well, back to square one, modding an old 3-chip model.

    TBH I just watched a comparison video and I barely noticed a difference; The older Super Nintendo's picture just looks a little darker.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  19. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    If you look at still image comparisons on the same monitor, you can see somewhat of a difference. The image is a lot softer on older units. This page on RetroRGB has some good comparisons. Personally, I use my NTSC unit on my Sony PVM-14N6U professional CRT in RGB and it looks really good to me IMHO.
     
  20. Batzarro

    Batzarro Member

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    [On a side note, after doing some more research, there seems to be 2-chips as well as 3-chips and 1-chips. I thought there was just 3-chips which are the old bad ones, and 1-chips which are the newer good ones. So that means I know the ones I have aren't 1-chips, but I don't know if they're 2-chips or 3-chips. So from now on, I'll refer to them as non-1-chips]

    I have seen it before, in fact that's the page where i learnt about the different models in the first place. Yes you can see the difference. But let's face it, you're clearly going to see a difference if you put the game through an expensive device, zoom into individual pixels, pause it and put them side by side.

    I find it a bit odd that all the sites and forums I've read concentrate on modding 1-chips (to make them even better than they already are), instead of discussing how to make the older models output better image quality, so they can be close to or as good as the 1-chips. Unless this was already discovered to be impossible ages ago? Baring in mind I have yet to research the stuff some others earlier talked about, something about SuperCIC and 'crystal', not sure what that is. Actually I'll do that right now.

    EDIT - Right so I better stop myself from going off-topic; As someone posted earlier, I could use one of the mods linked below. This looks really interesting, though I haven't seen videos on it, I'll go look for any after I write this.

    https://github.com/borti4938/SNES-AddOn-PCBs/tree/master/RGB Bypass

    I am a little confused though, even though it gives instructions on how to mod my old model, it seems to have 3 PCBs listed; SNES_RGBAmp, SNES_RGBAmp_wCSYNC, SNES_RGBAmp_wCSYNC_SVid. Which one am I supposed to use? MonkeyBoyJoey said "that would be needed anyway since C-Sync was replaced with 12V on PAL units", so I assume that means I should go with SNES_RGBAmp_wCSYNC? And I wouldn't use the SVid one because I assume that's if you're using an S-Video cable, which I will not.

    EDIT - OK after re-reading some older posts here, I forgot (but now have been reminded) that my SNES is listed on that mod page, so it is in fact 3-chip. In fact I think every SNES I own is 3-chip! Which means I must use 'SNES RGB Bypass Board Vers. 4.1b'. I'm not sure where I'm going to buy one of these in the UK.

    https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/FGz6MoI9

    Also, is this is good choice if I want to add mult-region too? Would I need to add this as well?;

    https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/lLVx26eP

    EDIT - Apparently Oshpark ship to the UK so I'll probably use them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018

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