Site Feedback Moderation application discussion

Discussion in 'Site Help and Suggestions' started by modrobert, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. Yakumo

    Yakumo Pillar of the Community *****

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    I have nothing against Xbox myself, I'm a big 360 and Xbox One user as many here know but it's no secrets that a lot of dicks do come from the Xbox section. I hope the section doesn't go but we do need to weed out the unwanted trouble makers.
     
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  2. MBMM

    MBMM Powered by Pied Piper

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    Well thank you sir. I do appreciate it. We shall see. I've done all I can do at this point.
     
  3. Pikkon

    Pikkon "Moving in Stereo"

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    You guys are right,I remember being a mod over at the xbox section,had to deal with a bunch of shit.
     
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  4. Borman

    Borman Digital Games Curator

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    Again though, that was like 5-7 years ago. You cant be trapped in the past. If you want to get rid of the Xbox One, PS4, and Switch, I get it, they are too hot to deal with the potential fallout.

    But there is absolutely no reason why last generation consoles cant be discussed. The bad eggs got weeded out years ago, and it was a battle to do it then. Now that we have none or very few, and I can't think of anyone I would identify as solely being a member for the Xbox content, there is no reason to cut it.

    Especially when there are people who actually do pose a threat to the forum and its sustainability left to come and go as they please, under the guise of "It's better to know who they are."
     
  5. wheelaa

    wheelaa FM Towns / MD Addict Site Supporter 2010-2015

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    And Pikkon.

    And some supercool superchill smooth grooveriding cat called MBMM. :)
     
  6. MBMM

    MBMM Powered by Pied Piper

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    Can't say I've ever been described that way. Solid description. I'll hold onto that one haha.

    But in all seriousness there are plenty of other people who know the community better or have more tenure. I don't want to detract from those people but at the same time I think we'd all make a great team.
     
  7. retro

    retro Resigned from mod duty 15 March 2018

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    If we moderate behind-the-scenes, people complain that we're not being upfront enough about what's happening.

    We changed it so everything is in the open, and people complain that it shouldn't be so, and moderation should be done privately.

    [​IMG]

    Since we changed to Xenforo, we have had a three-strike moderation system. Technically, it's set up to auto ban for so many days when a user reaches a certain amount of warning points. The staff have often been very fair - perhaps too fair - and often just give a "verbal" warning instead of points. The majority of users understood that one warning point isn't the end of the world - it will disappear on its own soon enough. The point was to make you take notice that you'd done something contrary to the rules. Most people took a slap on a wrist with a "oops, sorry... will be sure not to do it again!" and all is fine. We all move on and remain happy.

    We understand that people are upset about the downtime and lack of information. Things weren't handled in the best matter. We're back now, though, and looking for ways to improve the site. Most users were happy the site were back, but some decided to voice their frustrations. That's fine... so long as you vent then move on. Other users chose to be petty, posting on the forums, on the Facebook page, on the Subreddit, on YouTube, silly messages that were rather toxic in nature, and geared against the site. This has been happening all year, pretty much. Kevin didn't do much about it, leaving it to the staff, which meant those of us moderating in our spare time had a whole bunch of anger to deal with. We get it - you're unhappy, and people who are unhappy are always going to be more vocal about something than people who are happy. Unfortunately, people don't bother giving compliments for things they like half as much as they will complain. And these people seemed to think it was OK to keep on and on with this attitude. We have given people warnings, they keep on, so they get a temporary ban. They then return to the site with the same "I did nothing wrong" toxic attitude. If you were banned, you did something wrong. If you can't play nice and abide by the rules, then you don't belong here. We pride ourselves on the friendliness and maturity the forums have had for decades, where other gaming communities can be horrible. We want to ensure that remains the case.

    So, @Admin chose to revise the warning system. This is a way to say that we're taking control of a situation that was allowed to perpetuate. If you're here to be toxic and negative about the site, you're taking up staff time and that's not OK. If you don't like something, don't use it. Do you stand in the supermarket telling everyone that Coke changed its recipe and now it sucks? That's basically what it's like. You're not calling the helpline and saying hey - I don't really like this, sorry but I won't be buying your product. You're telling the end users not to use it because you don't like it.

    People moan about the "new" beta ban. It's not new. You've never been allowed to profit from ILLEGALLY making copies of a beta you own. We're not talking about reselling a beta disc that you've bought.... we're talking putting that disc in your PC and running off copies, or extracting a beta from a dev kit hard drive and selling copies on disc and keeping the dev kit. That's never been OK.

    People moan about the no fundraisers rule. Again, we're not talking about donation drives for the site. We're talking about buying a beta you see for sale and asking members to contribute so that you can distribute copies to them... whether you stump up the money upfront or are asking them to pool together so you can afford to get your hands on the physical product. Or, indeed, trying to profit in that manner from something you already have. I've always voiced my dislike of such practice. It's a good way to draw unwanted attention from copyright owners, for a start... plus it's usually the case that the fundraiser is for the sale price, hence the organizer profits by having a physical product that still has value.

    As for the bans, read what it says - 30 day ban in most cases. We had people trolling and being negative about the site... and others found it funny to join in. If someone says something negative about the site, adding some allegedly amusing endorsement of their post is going to see you reprimanded, too. Likewise, we had people signing up with multiple accounts after being banned and suspicious "friend of" accounts. We're not stupid. Again, we moderate behind-the-scenes, so a disruptive post will likely have been deleted, hence you won't always see why someone was banned. Oh, and if you're going to PM death threats to a user, don't think we won't see.

    There were also people here with an attitude that they deserve to see, or even play, something you have. That's not acceptable. I don't demand you hand over your Ferrari keys because I want to have a go, or photocopy your Amazing Spider-Man issue 1. And we even had sellers who didn't contribute anything to the forums. Whilst it would be nice for a seller with $10,000 worth of stuff to offload to give a donation, just joining in with conversations and offering your knowledge is contribution enough. Some didn't even do that. We had people like Krikzz who would use the forum for free promotion, then abandon it.

    As for forums... don't forget that the hardware specific ones were always supposed to be about development. There's a lot of generic talk in there. That belongs in General Gaming, or another more appropriate forum. Ironically, if 360 does go, it was one of the few forums that by-and-large remained on topic!

    So, in reality, very little has changed. We are basically ensuring the rules are enforced and that the site remains a nice place to come and discuss rare and obscure games, including development.

    I'm moving this discussion to the discussion thread - let's keep the other one for applications only. If you want to discuss things not related to the application, e.g. rules, make a new thread.
     
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  8. MBMM

    MBMM Powered by Pied Piper

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    Nice to see you weigh in on some things, @retro. I was waiting for something like this.
     
  9. LeHaM

    LeHaM Site Soldier

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    I think the fact that the new admin is seemingly anonymous, doesn’t help things..
     
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  10. karsten

    karsten Member of The Cult Of Kefka

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    While having a public figure getting flak is a way to easen tensions and makes things look like "there's the owner" to complain to, the Admin choice of not having a public figure it's kinda understandable.

    It'll be more of us mods putting ourself on the line of fire to say so, but nothing will really bee that different.
     
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  11. Zeigren

    Zeigren Robust Member

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    I really like the anonymous admin concept. Saves whoever admin is from receiving a bunch of personalized attacks and harassment and you could have multiple individuals with access to the admin account in case of emergency.
     
    -=FamilyGuy=- likes this.
  12. MoonTar

    MoonTar Site Supporter 2014

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    I don't understand this at all wanting an anonymous admin. I don't like it or agree with it. As far as I am concerned getting crap from people is part of the job of being an admin, if someone doesn't like getting crap then DON'T BE AN ADMIN. Simple as that. Would you want an anonymous boss at work? Something goes wrong and can't find the boss to solve it because he doesn't like having problems?
     
  13. Zeigren

    Zeigren Robust Member

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    I wouldn't say I want it per se, but to continue with your analogy Assemblergames would be a business with 25,000+ employees. The admin would be more akin to the CEO, which in a business that large to most of the employees the CEO might as well be an anonymous person. I couldn't even tell you the CEO's name of any place I've ever worked. As an employee you probably wouldn't go yell at the CEO if something was messed up on your paycheck, you would go yell at your boss aka the mods (sorry mods). If there was any problem that your boss couldn't handle they would bring that to the CEO. Even if you wanted to go yell at the CEO you probably would have to make your way through other people before you could do that. In that structure you can diffuse the ire of that many people amongst the staff.

    But before the change each one of us could personally gripe to Kev about whatever we wanted to. We didn't have to go through the mods, we could just message him. Even if only 1% of members regularly did that, that's still 250 people. This being the internet and with this many members that also opens him up to being subjected to all types of shenanigans by garbage people if he made them mad, DDOS attacks, swatting, people trying to hack or leak his personal information, etc... Or like when the site went down having a ton of people suddenly very interested in the various facets of his life, how he was spending his time, and making all kinds of strange demands not even about bringing the site back online. With an anonymous admin it would just be about getting the site back online. There wouldn't be all this other weirdness or people's personal dealings with the admin in various other circumstances getting thrown into the fire.

    Me liking the idea of an anonymous admin has more to do with how just how crappy people can be. With this many people it increases the chances that one of us will make whoever is running the sites life a living hell if they make us mad. But with an anonymous person running the site it makes it harder to maintain personal grudges against them, or attack them irl, and the anonymous admin can essentially keep their "work" and personal life separate.

    I guess this also hinges on that we do have mods to talk to, and believing that they can get in touch with the admin if needed. Even if only some of them can. I don't really care or need to know who is running the site, I've never really cared with any other website I've ever used, I just care that it's there.

    Now I'm curious, are there other websites you peeps frequent where there's a big hub bub of knowing who runs the site?
     
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  14. MoonTar

    MoonTar Site Supporter 2014

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    I will be honest, I do not visit that many forums but of all the forums I do visit, everyone knows who the admin is.

    I also hope that comparison to AssemblerGames being a company with 250,000 employees and the Admin being the CEO was a joke. I'd like you to go tell a real CEO with that many employees that his job is like being a forum admin. I'm not going into this any further. I said what I wanted. If someone takes a role they should accept everything that comes with it.
     
  15. HEX1GON

    HEX1GON FREEZE! Scumbag

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    These people are employed to maintain the site. ASSEMbler still has input and will check it from time to time, but this hired company will keep everything running smoothly in the 'steam room' so to speak.
     
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  16. karsten

    karsten Member of The Cult Of Kefka

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    Pretty much accurate. I'm sure you guys must have noticed how much more upfront us mods are being lately, correct?
     
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  17. MoonTar

    MoonTar Site Supporter 2014

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    Ok, I lied I am replying again. I am just trying to wrap my head around how everything is working now.

    I think that is a good idea for a group to keep the site up with updates, security problems, ect. BUT is the hired company the one behind Admin then? So are the people in the company all sharing Admin? So then if problems arise and Admin is needed then it may not be the same person every time? I would see this as a problem IF TRUE because different people will handle things in different ways than others.

    Also, since it is a HIRED company and not volunteers like the mods are, who exactly is paying them and where is the money coming from? I can't imagine the mods are paying them out of their own pockets. That would not be right. Are donations now paying the hired company as well as the server cost for the site itself? If people are being paid then I imagine the cost to keep the site up is much more now right? Before donations were for keeping the site up too so nothing new there but the donations weren't paying Assembler a salary just the server costs. (As far as I know.) I am not sure if this can be answered at all but just throwing it out there. I know lots of the behind the scene stuff can't be shared.

    I do appreciate the people in charge responding so thank you for that. :)
     
  18. HEX1GON

    HEX1GON FREEZE! Scumbag

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    That is something for me not to answer. You'll have to wait till ASSEMbler chimes in.
     
  19. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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    Aka "Admin"
     
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  20. HEX1GON

    HEX1GON FREEZE! Scumbag

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    I know just as much as you guys do...
     
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