Best way to preserve CD-R dev discs

Discussion in 'Repair, Restoration, Conservation and Preservation' started by Diablodin, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Hi. I'm going to recieve a bunch of PS1 dev discs aka old CD-R etc, and I wonder what's the best method to create an accurately backup of the contents, and what is the best medium to preserve it on.

    I've discussed this slightly with Jackhead, and he told me about M-DISC. It sounds like a Very durable medium and is physical enough imo. Is M-DISC the way to go?

    And I want to make the most perfect backups of the content on the discs, but wonder what the best way is.
    ISO, ImgBurn, something else? Pros/cons? Is it possible to make exact dupes of the content on the discs so it can be moved to a new disc and run on a PS1? How easy/hard is said option?

    Hope I haven't ignored some super direct guide on how to backup PS1 dev discs.
    All and any help much is appreciated.
     
  2. supersega

    supersega I have 7 and a half PS1s in my room alone.

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    Dump them and put them on tape if you want them to last 150 years. :)

    But for real, I'd dump and then burn to a gold archival CD-R if you still want to use the dumps of your games. That'll be a good 40-50 years storage depending on condition. M-DISC is a good option too but you can't make exact dupes.
     
  3. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Aha. So are you saying a gold archival CD-R will make for a more exact backup than an M-DISC?
    And if I were to backup the data over to an M-DISC, would I not be able to export the data from the disc again later?
    I need a solid, "everlasting" medium to put the data on, and to get as accurate data backup as possible. Hopefully a backup of the actual files to to keep it authentic, and so they can be moved to a new disc and used for reviewing and archiving, and easily used and to copy.
    I'm gonna have to copy multiple sets, one for archival perposes (perhaps just one disc), use in organizing, and one set for use.
     
  4. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    No more insight on this?
     
  5. VerticalE

    VerticalE Spirited Member

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    Never heard of M-Disc before but it looks awesome! I am considering buying a few spindles of BD discs and then add as many ISO dumps to each disc that I can. If I need to run anything on a console then I always have the option to burn a new disc on a CDR/DVD/Whatever.
     
  6. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Right. So you're used to this procedure? Is it just to use ISO with slowest read speed, and burn the files back over to a new disc the same way and you'll have the exact copy?
    And what do you think is the best format to archive data on? M-DISC is said to last 1000 years.
     
  7. Druidic teacher

    Druidic teacher Officer at Arms

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    x
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  8. APE

    APE Site Supporter 2015

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    Pretty much this:
    Let the internet be your backup. Fire, flood, earthquakes will destroy physical discs but when there are 500k copies of it in the wild you'll never lose it. Cultural preservation trumps financial gain and I have released stuff I've paid for before. It was nothing particularly valuable but it still ran me some money.
     
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  9. Druidic teacher

    Druidic teacher Officer at Arms

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    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  10. arnoldlayne

    arnoldlayne Resolute Member

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    Just back them up on a hard drive or a couple of USB pen drives. When you want to play them just burn a copy. Backing up a CD onto another CD seems pointless to me - CD's rot eventually and it's mostly luck as to how long they'll last imho.
     
  11. Knuckles500

    Knuckles500 Spirited Member

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    If you plan on making image backups of the CD-Rs, I would recommend using CloneCD to make as close as a 1:1 backup as you can. If you go this route, be sure to extract subchannel data and to do all the ripping at the lowest supported speed your CD drive can support. If you have time, make multiple rip attempts to be on the safe side.
     
  12. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    We'll see. I'm kinda the egoistic type when it comes to my collection. My very first concern is to make as good backups as possible, asap, and find the best medium to put them on.
     
  13. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Yeah. True. Luckily I live in the safe middle of Norway. I might consider what to do at some point, but first I focus on backing them up to digital as perfectly as possible.
     
  14. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    I'm thinking when I got the data backups and digital, I'll make backups to multiple medium. I just want to know what sounds like the best and most durable option that will hold data most accurately.

    CloneCD? Will definitely check that out. And yeah, I'm prepared to spend a lot of time to make the most complete and accurate backups. I want them as perfect as I can. I hope to find out pros and cons about Blu-ray, M-DISC, mentioned Gold Archival CD-R, solid USB-sticks and eventually other medium. And I wish to dive into what medium makes for best data accuracy, if there's anything like that, and easy to extract data from again in the future.
     
  15. TriState294

    TriState294 Site supporter 2016

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    It's a really awkward and yet awesome feeling to be redownloading material that you created/dumped/ripped yourself after a hard drive crash. My experience wasn't with video game preservation, but the same principles apply. Get the materials into as many interested people's hands and one of them will survive and resurface as times and formats change.

    Was this serious? What tape format is worth archiving to at the moment? Relatively current gen LTO?
     
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  16. VerticalE

    VerticalE Spirited Member

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    Some of us don't take lightly on the release aspect of it and want to share videos and images instead of the builds themselves. For us the collective archiving of data is not an option. I would also argue that it isn't always easy to re-download terrabytes of data. Not because of bad lines but because of shitty sharing service. So even for those that opt for that route the service isn't always satisfactory.

    As for the PSX discs in question (I take it that it is the Climax Diablo discs Jack bought) then use CloneCD and use the "Protected Game Disc" (can't remember the exact name) option when backing up. Those discs are among the older ones from the lot (about 20 years old) so you are bound to get some with problems reading.

    Sometimes the problem is scratches. What I do in those cases is use a simple CD/DVD resurfacer/cleaner. They gently sand the bottom layer of the disc, then apply some fluid that are supposed to fill the small scratches, then after a minute or two of drying I run a cleaning program on the disc with some cleaning fluid. I've had discs that I had to redo 20-30 times before I was able to dump. Biggest problem is that the sanding process is shite on these cheaper resurfacers so it takes many retries.

    Other times it is whatever the CD-R (hopefully not CD-RW as they are the worst) is made of (the data layer under the top coat) that is becoming unreadable. This is where DVDisaster is your friend. It is a free app that will allow you to read a disc several times with multiple drives over the same image.

    Lastly you have discs where the top coating is actually starting to fall off. There you have the option of either dumping whatever data is on the disc file by file and ignore whatever can't be read or dump the whole thing (with unreadable sectors and everything) with DVDisaster.

    M-Disc isn't some biological material that will decay over time. It is basically etching the disc into rock. You nead a special burner for it. It won't decay over time and is readable from any normal CD drive. A superb option for backing up by the sound of it, although I have yet to try it myself.
     
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  17. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Yeah. I completely understand. And I'm going to get this done properly. Backups will be stored digitally and physically, and in multiple sets.
    As VerticalE says, I'm getting itchy thinking of letting it all out there, but documenting by pictures and video is something I want to do. I've been working of a checklist sheet for many key details about builds now, from organizing the discs I already own.
     
  18. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Yeah. I will go through all the discs I acquire as thoroughly as I can first, then hopefully be able to document what's necessary with pictures and videos.
    And I will never leave the existence of the bakcups in the hands of an online storage service alone. I actually don't trust that kind of medium all too much. Suddenly "something" happens or they go bankrupt, and all on there, no matter what, get trashed. The very feared earthquake can def swipe such a server.

    Yep. You're right, VerticalE. I hope to obtain all the Diablo dev discs one day, merge the separate sets with the mixed lot I got, separate them into lots of their respected regions and organize and document everything from A to Z.
    As knuckles500 said too, CloneCD seems like an option. When it comes to dumping software my main focus is to make as full and complete backups as possible, of the exact files, to make ready to burn onto new mediums. How long it takes I don't care about, as long as it's done real solid. I'll make a note of "Protected Game Disc or something". It sounds like a key feature for dumping discs like these. A few are even completely broken I think. Thanks for the tip btw.

    Out of my mixed lot I only had problems with a few discs. Some that are of the earliest versions, and some that has prominent cracks from the center and out. I will go as far as professional help to get all these discs properly dumped or fixed. Sadly no-ones offering any services like that in Norway, but I can consider a cheap resurficer.
    I took a quick look at DVDisaster right now, and it looks like something I'll have use of. I only have a pretty crap laptop as of now tho. Will this software (and CloneCD for that matter) work and utilize the important extra performance features when on older laptops?

    I haven't read too much about different mediums yet, but M-DISC sounds extremely solid. But did you say it needs to be professionally burned?
     
  19. TriState294

    TriState294 Site supporter 2016

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    The other thing to think of if you want to keep the archive at home is to make sure that someone in your "real life" knows what you have and can preserve it in the event of your death. I know it's a bit morbid, but about twice a year I take a close friend aside and show him the layout of my archives in case I drop dead. I then make sure he understands what communities would be interested in the content in hopes that he finds someone that could absorb the collection and distribute the unique bits for further preservation. I've absorbed collections this way and I would be honored if somebody would absorb my dataset upon my death.

    Many standard DVD/Blu-Ray burners are M-Disc compatible now. Just make sure you're using a burner with the M-Disc logo and burning on the (expensive) M-Disc media.

    I'm not sure how I feel about spending the extra money on 100 year rated discs. A lot can change in 100 years...I kinda think my funds are better spent just reburning everything every 5 years on whatever the current media is. That strategy has done me pretty well so far.
     
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  20. Diablodin

    Diablodin Spirited Member

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    Wow. I don't know if I'd do that... None of my closest friends care this much about video games. But two of my newest friends might qualitfy lol.
    But I have thought about it lately, actually. Diablo is what I want to keep focusing on, and my collection has grown with rare items the past two years. I wish to complete the PS1 dev disc sets to properly archive and document them, as well as my other items. And as you say, we can all drop dead any second really. So I've been considering just leaving a note along with my collection describing what it means and what one should do with it, that I'm yet to decide. But I really don't want to put pressure on my friends just yet, as we're in our mid 20's heh! :D

    Hmmm... I should also invest in a better computer...
    I feel M-DISC sounds good because it's almost everlasting, when burned it should work on most disc drives, and it's write-once, so it can't be overwritten. I can't afford too expensive mediums, like thousands of dollars, but I'm prepared to save and spend a couple of hundred if necessary if I obtain all the discs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017

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