Best Version of the Playstation?

Discussion in 'Modding and Hacking - Consoles and Electronics' started by retrorgb, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39
    I was hoping to get the expertise of this forum to answer a question I've had for awhile: Is there a version of the PS1 that outputs RGB video better then the rest? Is using a PS1 (or 'PSOne') even a good option, or do PS1 games look better when played through PS2 systems (via RGB or component)? There are so many different PS1 revisions, that I'd never be able to test each one...so I was looking to you all for help. As an FYI, I'm only interested in RGB output. I'm sure some versions output better composite or S-Video but I only care about the best output: RGB. I generally only play my systems through an RGB-monitor but I imagine this info would also apply to people using the X-RGB Mini or other upscalers.

    Also, is audio quality better on some versions (for the games not audio CD's)? That's definitely an issue that plagued the Genesis systems.


    I'm hoping there's an easy answer, like with Super Nintendo's (use the Mini modded for RGB) or Sega Saturn's (Model 1's usually look better). I couldn't find any info about video output quality anywhere, so I figured I'd go here. This forum has a really good thread about SNES versions, so I was hoping to start the same with Playstation versions.


    Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.
     
  2. yoshifan333

    yoshifan333 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can't use a Component PS2 to play Ps1-games.
    The best way to play PS1 games is on a PS3 with a HDMI-cable. (Framerate is better and no memory cards)
     
  3. Johnny

    Johnny Gran Turismo Freak and Site Supporter 2013,2015

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,232
    Likes Received:
    404
    SCPH-1001 + PSOne lens?
     
  4. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39
    Thanks for your info...I was wondering if the PS2 would output PS1 games in 240p via component...but I guess not.

    Also, I imagine if you're using a flatscreen HDTV, playing both PS1 and PS2 games (with the right model) would look best when played via HDMI on a PS3. I'm really trying to find the best version of the PS1 for use on an RGB monitor in 240p.



    i appreciate the info, but could you explain why? Sadly, the Playstation 1 and 2 are the systems I know the least about and I'd really like to learn as much as possible.


    Thanks to both of you for replying!
     
  5. bennydiamond

    bennydiamond Gutsy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    181
    SCPH-5xxx and below can be modded for digital audio output.

    SCPH-1001 has the best analog audio output quality, I don't know about video quality between revisions.
     
  6. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    1,376
    IIRC, the later revisions moved away from the CXA encoder to another brand (dont recall off the top of my head which). But I think the sony CXA was better picture (over RGB at least).
     
  7. smf

    smf mamedev

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    92
    I think he meant you can't use a component cable on a PS1. You can play PS1 games on a PS2 with a component cable, I would imagine non interlaced games do run at 240p.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  8. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39

    Thank you. I'll test myself as soon as I get a PS2.





    So, from an audio point of view, choose the SCPH-1001 if I plan on getting audio from the RCA cables and get an SCPH-5xxx if I plan on modding and getting audio from a digital out port? I think I'll be sticking with RCA, so it sounds like the 1001 would be the better choice.





    This is exactly the type of info I've been looking for! I assume the 1001 systems had this CXA encoder, making it seem like a really good choice.


    BTW, how does the PSOne compare? I love how small it is, but the video and audio means much more to me than size.
     
  9. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    1,376
    I think (this is all from memory and my brain cells are old and/or long suicidal) the switch happened around 7xxx or 75xx. So 5xxx or below is Sony anything above was the other brand iirc.

    You can use component cables on the PS2 and play PS1 games. I am not sure what it outputs though (other than I know I did a FF7 run a couple of years ago on my TV + PS2 + Component)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  10. Lum

    Lum Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,234
    Likes Received:
    43
    Both PS1 and PS2 have RGB. I don't know about quality.

    You can't use component on a PS1.
    PS2 requires compatible TV for PS1 games. It will not upconvert the video output.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  11. bennydiamond

    bennydiamond Gutsy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    181
    Note that some PSX games will not play on PS2, mainly Tomba!


    You can use any revision from 1001 to 5xxx to do the digital audio mod.


    I'm not sure but the datasheet for the CXA1645P/M indicates that this encoder is only used to produce Composite and S-video output out of RGB.

    http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/cxa1645.pdf

    Is this the same IC used in the PSX? If so it means that the CXA is not really important for RGB output(unless the replacement chip is not properly matched on the RGB lines and produces noise and/or reflection). R,G and B signals only pass through this chip.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  12. Lum

    Lum Officer at Arms

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,234
    Likes Received:
    43
    Well if you can't mod yourself digital audio might not be cost effective. PS2 already does that.
     
  13. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39
    @bennydiamond - All interesting points, thanks for posting.

    I have a 1001 coming to me this week. I'll pop it open and compare it to my cousin's 7xxx and see what chips are different. Also, I'll see if I can do a picture comparison of those two consoles outputting RGB, as well as a PSOne another friend has. I'm very curious to see if there's any noticeable RGB video difference and if there is, I'll post the comparison pics on my website (I'll post links to it here as well). I'll also try and do an analog audio comparison to see if I can hear a difference.

    If anyone has any other info on what PS1 consoles to test, please let me know. I'll hopefully be able to get all three consoles together this coming weekend, but if not, definitely next weekend.

    Then, I'll start looking into the best version of the PS2 and compare those as well (both compare the different PS2 consoles, as well as compare playing a PS1 game on a 2). It is my assumption that for RGB monitors (or any high-end CRT), the best thing to do is play PS1 games on whatever is determined to be the best version of the system, via RGB. Then, play only PS2 games on a PS2 (also the best determined version), via 480p. I'm also still assuming that if you're using an HDTV, it's best to pay all of those games through a PS3 via HDMI.

    If anyone has opinions, please chime in and I'll try to test everything. Thanks again for your help.
     
  14. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39
    Thanks for posting.


    I have a 1001 coming to me this week. I'll pop it open and compare it to my cousin's 7xxx and see what chips are different. Also, I'll see if I can do a picture comparison of those two consoles outputting RGB, as well as a PSOne another friend has (I actually think he has a bunch of PS1's, so I'll try them all). I'm very curious to see if there's any noticeable RGB video difference and if there is, I'll post the comparison pics on my website (I'll post links here as well). I'll also try and do an analog audio comparison to see if I can hear a difference.


    If anyone has any other info on what PS1 consoles to test, please let me know. I'll hopefully be able to get all three consoles together this coming weekend, but if not, definitely next weekend.


    Then, I'll start looking into the best version of the PS2 and compare those as well (both compare the different PS2 consoles, as well as compare 1 games on the 2). It is my assumption that for RGB monitors (or any high-end CRT), the best thing to do is play PS1 games on whatever is determined to be the best version of the system, via RGB. Then, play only PS2 games on a PS2 (also the best determined version), via 480p. I'm also still assuming that if you're using an HDTV, it's best to pay all of those games through a PS3 via HDMI.


    If anyone has any other thoughts or info, I'd love to hear your opinions. Thanks again!
     
  15. FireAza

    FireAza Shake! Shake!

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    26
    Sorry to slightly hijack this thread, but I've read a few interesting things here. I had been planning to use a modchipped PS2 with component cables to play both import PS2 and PSX games. But now it seems that some PSX games don't run on the PS2 (Tomba as mentioned above), so now it seems I actually need a PSX. However:
    1) SCART cables for the PSX, do they output true RGB or just composite? Do all PSX models support RGB if so?
    2) What model should I be looking into if I'm going to be using RGB SCART? As bennydiamond mentioned, the CXA isn't important if you're using RGB.
     
  16. kuze

    kuze Peppy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    6
    1) SCART cables output true glorious RGB from the ps1. Haven't heard of a model that doesn't support RGB.

    2) SCPH-1001 with a later model laser/lens
     
  17. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39
    Interesting. I wonder how common this is.

    All models of the PlayStation can output RGB. As long as the cables you buy say "RGB SCART", you'll be fine. If you see cables that just say "PlayStation SCART", they might be composite.

    Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Even though all output RGB, I'm trying to determine if one looks better than another. Hopefully I'll have a better answer in a week or two, after some side-by-side comparisons.


    Another issue I'll be confirming is output resolution. Unless you're using an HDTV, you'll always want your PS1 games to output 240p. If you're using a PS2 with an RGB monitor, you'll most likely only be able to use a 480i signal, so using a 480p display would be better. Check out my 240p page if you want more detail: retrorgb.com/240p
     
  18. retrorgb

    retrorgb Spirited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    39
    Could you explain why?
     
  19. kuze

    kuze Peppy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    6
    Also the early models have the parallel port, if that makes any difference to you. Haven't personally seen a difference in RGB video quality between different models.
     
  20. FireAza

    FireAza Shake! Shake!

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    26
    Does it have to be a 1001? Could it also be a 1002 or slightly later be pretty much the same? Also, the PSX with the RCA jacks built in, are these from the range that I'd be after?

    My Plasma has handled all the retro consoles I've thrown at it, no display problems so far!

    Oh, and another thing, aside from the early consoles that have the RCA jacks in the back, are the shells of the PSX all the same? i.e could I put the guts of one PSX into another, or is it like the PS2 where nearly every revision of the hardware also changes the construction of the shell?
     

Share This Page