Anyone has a Hdmi AA and upscaler cable like Seiki SU4KC1 U-Vision Up or mCable Gaming Edition?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by karsten, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. karsten

    karsten Member of The Cult Of Kefka

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    As per thread title, i was wondering if anyone has one of these, expecially the Seiki that has a decent price, but i haven't found any report on how it behaves upscaling and AA ps3 and ps2 games...

    For those unaware of these the mcable is freaking awesome for ps2/ps3, like in tje example of demon's souls here:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I was wondering expecially about the seiki since at 39.99 since it has many stating it's amazing but zero picture comparison like the one above. the mcable is basically amazing but it's freaking costy 139....

    also any feedback on these from first hand is welcome!
     
  2. PixelButts

    PixelButts Site Soldier

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    Man you could use an HDMI capture solution couldnt you
    I dont have any input other than bite the bullet via a retailer like amazon and return it if its not up to par. I know the mCable does a good job but I'm not sure how much better of a job another cable will do. I can't imagine there's too much of a difference

    In some cases you can set the game you're running to be in 1080p with a param.sfo modification but this unfortunately requires a modified system.
    You can set Demon's Souls to run in 1080p and see how the mCable cleans it up? The game's visuals take a huge hit if you leave 720p and I'd be interested to see how well it cleans up something like this.
    game Screenshot 2019-01-22 13-28-23.png
     
  3. karsten

    karsten Member of The Cult Of Kefka

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    I presume that picture is emulated? What is the pint of a hdmi capture card?
     
  4. PixelButts

    PixelButts Site Soldier

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    Nope that's running straight from my PS3. An HDMI capture card would eliminate the need to take a picture of the display. You could also compare directly to show the effect the mCable has assuming you run it like this PS3 > mCable > HD60 (my card) > Display. That's what I've been doing. I can switch my cables accordingly to fit my needs and the capture card can also do some tweaks (not many but still).

    I dont own an mCable so I cant honestly say how well it would work but for upscaling an HDMI signal I can only assume the mCable and the other one you suggested would work best.

    Also there's a screenshot function in the PS3 if you need it but it wont show the processing effects that the mCable does since its straight from the game rather than whatever comes out of the HDMI port
    game Screenshot 2019-01-22 14-28-36.png


    I did find this post related to the cable you had mentioned
    https://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/general/seiki-converting-cable-scrutinized-t3007600
     
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  5. Bearking

    Bearking Konsolkongen

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    As a purist, who always want the raw picture, regardless of resolution rather than smoothing and sharpening I must say that I find that these mCables look awful.

    There is a thread on shmups with screenshots that shows what I'm talking about. Especially in the 2D games shots, but the same treatment is of course applied at higher resolutions as well, although not nearly as noticeable.
    https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60920&hilit=mcable&start=30

    This is just my opinion. If you feel that it makes games look better, then by all means go for it. I just thought it was relevant to show images that properly show what the cable is doing :)
     
  6. Vosse

    Vosse Well Known Member

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    This isn't real Anti Aliasing. It's basically just processing and over sharpening the image and honestly it looks terrible. (It doesn't even properly detect long horizontal edges so it can't resolve the subpixel information properly.
    Take the brick edge in the first shot, it's a clear set of stair stepped edges (Aliasing) and the cable can't even properly attempt to smooth this out and instead it's a sort of smudgy wavy line instead. (FXAA/SMAA would work better than this even as limited as those are as similar post process AA methods). Also look at the leaves of the foliage and the long exposed side edge of the shin armor piece.

    Most TVs have multiple options for sharpness control and even some have edge smoothing.(Which is basically what this is doing. It's just applying a filter to a flat 2D image). My old Sony for example has no less than 3 different options for that stuff. (The edge enhancement option specifically tries to smooth out edges rather than sharpening them)

    The Mcable on lower resolution sources looks particularly awful and if you really look at it, it looks similar to the smoothing filter used on the Retrotink2x for 480i content and the Smoothing filter used on BC PS3 systems when playing PS2 games. But worse. Turns the image into smudge pudge.

    Honestly if you want real Anti Aliasing you should invest in a high end PC (For PS3 games specificaly. If you want to play anything else, a much lesser PC will suffice)and run games on Emulators. RPCS3 with high internal resolution rendering will get you real SSAA. This might be worthwhile for playing upscaled 480i games (As most of those deinterlaced look pretty bad much of the time). But for anything else, it's a waste of time.


    When you know what real Anti Aliasing looks like these cables just look laughable and are also highly deceptive in their marketing and what they claim to do.(Which is impossible)

    Here's what real AA looks like with Demon's Souls. 1080p with 4xSSAA
    [​IMG]
    Or 720p with 9xSSAA
    [​IMG]

    You will never be able to get anything better out of the real hardware. A cable with a sophisticated enough processor might be able to get comparable results to FXAA. (simple post process anti aliasing which uses a flat 2d image as input)But the Mcable fails to even match that low standard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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  7. karsten

    karsten Member of The Cult Of Kefka

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    If you can't see the AA on the character or the stone arch in the picture i posted you may have some eye issues my friend...

    I also already have a core i7 with a 1080 as my pc, but the ps3 emulation is really not good enough yet, and you won't be able to play Online at all. Also what they claim is not impossible since it's not "just a cable" but a cable with an actual video processor in it that is externally powered.

    There's plenty of pictures and feedback on the mcable from lots of sources and gaming sites...

    Here is Bloodborne standard
    [​IMG]

    with mcable
    [​IMG]

    Can you honestly say there's no diffference?
     
  8. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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    His point is correct. You can't make more data than whats coming out of the console. It's just some filtering.
     
  9. PixelButts

    PixelButts Site Soldier

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    But using an emulator is cheating. Also you're not letting it run in true 1080p, because the game's post-processing would end with jaggies and basically no anti-aliasing or other FX when running it at 1080p. The emulator is absolutely cleaning things up without any question, but unless you go in and specifically modify the param.sfo to run in 1080p mode it will be upscaling the internal resolution from a 720p base, not a 1080p base.
    Obviously you can change this, but why even bother?
    upload_2019-1-23_16-12-5.png

    This is what happens when you let it escape this 720p limit and then let the emulator handle everything else. Again, the game is programmed to not normally allow going past 720p, so it literally lacks code for adding post-processing effects to the image. Maybe not all of them, but the ones specifically to clean up jaggies are not. This would also look a hell of a lot cleaner if I reverted this param.sfo to only allow 720p at most.
    upload_2019-1-23_16-19-21.png
    upload_2019-1-23_16-19-7.png

    And here's what it looks like with strict rendering mode (still at 1080p)
    upload_2019-1-23_16-7-54.png

    And here's 720p
    upload_2019-1-23_16-10-54.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  10. Bearking

    Bearking Konsolkongen

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    @karsten your images are very hard to judge anything by, as it looks like you have the sharpness set too high on your tv set to begin with. There is clearly very nasty ringing in your pictures.

    Whatever the case we really need proper captures.
     
  11. PixelButts

    PixelButts Site Soldier

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    @Bearking might help to look at some sharper angles like the nose i guess. I see what he's referring to and yes it is just a filter from the cable.

    Without mCable
    upload_2019-1-23_20-3-36.png

    With mCable
    upload_2019-1-23_20-3-56.png
     
  12. Bearking

    Bearking Konsolkongen

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    Sorry I could have been clearer. I do see the difference in his shots. I just don’t think they are worth much with the added moire and ringing (although that doesn’t seem like an issue in that BB shot).
     
  13. karsten

    karsten Member of The Cult Of Kefka

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    The moire is actually the lcd pattern, since it was a picture taken witha cellphone or a camera afaik
     
  14. Bearking

    Bearking Konsolkongen

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    I know. And my point exactly ;)
     
  15. HI_Ricky

    HI_Ricky Enthusiastic Member

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    because the cable have gen edid talk to LCD is 1080i/p input, even is 720p , it direct use LCD 1080 mode to mapping .
     

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