2001 manufactured Dreamcasts

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Lum, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Lum

    Lum Officer at Arms

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    I haven't seen one myself, are there any pictures? Sega made the unforgettable "death" announcement in January, with news reports suggest back in the day suggesting units would be made until March.
     
  2. Gentlegamer

    Gentlegamer Active Member

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    Do you mind if I use this topic to ask which Dreamcast units can play CD-Rs?
     
  3. MonkeyBoyJoey

    MonkeyBoyJoey 70's Robot Anime GEPPY-X (PS1) Fanatic

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    All DC units can play CD-Rs. That rumor about later models not playing CD-Rs is false. Many people have tested CD-Rs on these later models and they play burned games. The popular theory out there is that the rumor was started by Sega to help combat piracy on the DC.
     
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  4. MisterEnthusiast

    MisterEnthusiast Robust Member

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    Speaking of Dreamcasts, I happen to have a Sega Sports edition Dreamcast in black.
     
  5. wombat

    wombat SEGA!

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    I think where the confusion started is that there are no (to my knowledge) NTSC-U and PAL models with such limitation, however there are certainly late models in Japan in which they removed MIL-CD compatibility making playing CD-R copies impossible (unless you do a bios swap)
     
  6. nonosto

    nonosto Intrepid Member

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  7. takeshi385

    takeshi385 Mojarra Frita Bandit

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    Units made before october 2000, all sega sport models are compatible with mil-cd. A bios replacement on any model will give you the ability to play backups though.
     
  8. gladders

    gladders Robust Member

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    Why did Sega make it so easy for the Dreamcast to play CD-Rs? The technology was there to lock them out, after all...
     
  9. nonosto

    nonosto Intrepid Member

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    I have one last unit (2001) NTSC J, compatible MIL/CD. It seems NTSC/U most uncomaptible
     
  10. wombat

    wombat SEGA!

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    It's not that SEGA did this on purpose, in a way the Dreamcast security was really well. But this exploit using the MIL-CD compatibility of the Dreamcast opened the gates for CD-R copies to be played.
     
  11. MBMM

    MBMM Powered by Pied Piper

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    MIL-CDs were just CDs with fancy pants features such as video and interactive menus. They were used a lot in Japan as Karaoke discs, and as such Sega made them compatible with the DC. This is where wombat's comment comes in.
     
  12. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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    Incorrect
     
  13. sonicsean89

    sonicsean89 Site Soldier

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    That's pretty much it. MIL-CDs were enhanced in a way, and hackers figured out how to exploit it for backups within months of the DCs release, though at the time a boot disc was required, it wasn't until I think 2002 or 03 that backups could straight load to a stock DC. I think the piracy aspect is a little overblown as a cause for the DC's demise (Sega's financial troubles and the runaway popularity of the PS2 killed it by themselves), but that's a topic for another thread.
     
  14. Lum

    Lum Officer at Arms

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    Maybe I shouldn't have made the topic's purpose quite THAT narrow. o_O
     
  15. MBMM

    MBMM Powered by Pied Piper

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    You were derailed rather quickly. Literally one post in.

    I personally don't own one. I do remember shortly after the DC's discontinuation announcement a local Toys R Us had SIB DCs for $50. I doubt they were manufactured Jan-Mar, but I could be wrong. The March cut off was possibly due to a contract they had with a manufacturer.

    I know this post doesn't shed much light on your topic, but hopefully it's more on-topic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  16. HEX1GON

    HEX1GON FREEZE! Scumbag

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    That would be off-topic wouldn't it? So you've basically thrown away the purpose of the whole thread. You'll get a warning next time.
     
  17. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

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    They were actually a format that Sega designed specifically for the DC - they have never been supported on any other machine before or since.

    The basic idea wasn't bad - when the DC booted a MIL-CD, it disabled all of the data-related functions on the CD drive before it started to run the loaded code - the only thing the code was supposed to be able to do was play audio tracks. They thought this would make the format unusable for playing games. The biggest problem was that there was in fact a way of turning the GD-ROM drive functions back on - it was pretty well hidden, but the reverse engineers found it anyway, along with the method used for scrambling the boot file.

    On top of this, some parts of the boot code were not checked by the DC boot ROM, so you could change them - this made exploiting the console a lot easier, since you could just replace the Sega supplied boot code with a patched version that reactivated the GD-ROM and reversed the scrambling done during the loading process. This made a CD-R look pretty much exactly like a GD-ROM except for being smaller and starting from a different LBA.

    The second issue is admittedly not as big as the first one, but it did mean that the level of skill required to pirate DC games was drastically reduced, hence the proliferation of cracking teams that were doing it.
     
  18. smf

    smf mamedev

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    What is strange is Nintendo made pretty much the same mistake with the Wii by having game discs that couldn't be read on a standard PC drive but allowed the Wii to read standard DVDs. As soon as you have the ability to patch code on the console, you can both read the original games and patch the software to accept copies.

    Nintendo also messed up their code signing on the Wii, as did Sony on the PS3. My conclusion is that nobody pays attention to other systems hacks, or they don't understand what they are doing enough to avoid the same pitfalls.

    Back on topic, the last models manufactured could be sitting in a warehouse somewhere or they could have been sold to people who still have them and don't visit places like this. Sometimes what we consider rare is only rare because it's not available to us, but we are a minority.
     
  19. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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    I personally wouldnt consider it much off topic, 2001 consoles are the one with MIL-CD issues and this topic is about 2001 dreamcast consoles.

    Limiting people to the extremely narrow topic by an OP would kill a lot of good discussion on this site.

    Sure, start talking about something completely unrelated - I would understand, but this isnt far off topic IMO.

    But you are the boss.
     
  20. momosgarage

    momosgarage Peppy Member

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    They are LONG gone and there is no more back-stock of DC's because the smaller vendors decided not to sell or distribute the DC after the Saturn burned them financially. In contrast, new, unsold, Saturn's and games could be found in warehouses a decade later, after its initial release. I bought many Saturn's from small shop owners whom got out of the video game business after the Saturn flopped, however, when the DC came along, everybody, except the big-guys, said "no thanks", hence, no hidden stockpiles of unsold DC units or games today.

    Sega Parts was doing warranty replacements for a couple of years after the Dreamcast stopped being sold retail. At that time I was buying up all the broken/returned units from Best Buy, ToysRus, etc, sending them to Sega Parts with the receipt and they would then send me a refurbished unit in a strange box specified for refurbished units. During that time EVERY unit I got back was a 2001 model made in China, I never once received an exchanged unit that was made in Japan or with a manufacture date before 2001. Also the last 2001 models could not be used with the Utopia Boot disc, to play burned CD-R's, out of the box, you needed a mod chip. During that time I exchanged at least 30-40 units under the Sega Parts Warranty program.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015

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