Some of you may aware that I have one of pre-production/prototype(?) Saturn console. After I did big clean up I'm thinking maybe it's about time to pass it to someone who may appreciate it more than me. Now the problem is how do I charge it for? There's no guideline of sort to determine... Maybe some of you can shed some idea? p.s. still it's tempting to put this one with Cross CartDev.B into the display cabinet but missus says no... the cabinet is for her Barbie platinum edition collection... ;(
I think that's very hard to determine because there's hardly ever one for sale. What exactly do you mean by pre-production console, one of those with a slightly different logo on top and other subtle differences? Those would be really, really rare.
That one machine of yours fascinated me for a LONG time. From what I can tell, it's a prototype of the stock unit design, that later went into full production. That sticker on its back saying something to the equivalent of "for internal use only" in japanese, which would indicate that much. Functionally it should be the same as the final machine, if the ASICs and the bios matches the final version, but on the low res pictures you posted, this is impossible to see. If you can write down the chip and board identifications on all the bigger chips (or even better, take photos of each - see the Saturns in Retrojunkies gallery for very good examples), and either post them here or send them to me in a PM, I could tell something more concrete - I keep track of what ICs were in which models, so at the very least I can tell you what ASICs are any different from production models. From what I remember from the pictures, the BIOS is an EPROM, which is uncommon but exists in other production machines, I've seen it in other hst-3200 models, hi-saturns, and even on an early PAL board, not to mention multiple Sega CD units that still used EPROM bioes. And the SCU has a metallic top - I've seen early Megadrives with a similar metallic VDP as well. And, there seems to be a sticker on the SH1 which could mean anything really. The three components where we have confirmed pre-mass-production revisions are the BIOS, SCU, and VDP1. The devkits and dev manuals mention these in more detail. It would be interesting to see if your machine has any of those parts. I could have offered 200$ for that machine right this instant except that I JUST spent that money on another Saturn, which is likely to be among the first 5000 units produced, and may still have early components in it similar to your machine (and also a Megadrive which was made in 1988, so similar early hardware). If I knew before last Saturday that you wanted to sell your machine.... well, c'est la vie. The fact that that machine survived, seems to indicate that it had final hardware, though. From what I can tell, Sega is penny-pinching in that they reuse older components as much as they can (going as far as releasing remaining stock of the single ASIC Megadrive as a "commemorative item"!), fitting production machines and dev kits with EPROM test bioses or multiple Engineering Samples, but I've never, never seen any pre-production hardware from them to survive. Then again, this could be one such item - which is why it fascinated me ever since I saw your pictures of it, and its insides. edit: Actually it should be very nearly if not fully identical to the retail VA0 motherboard: it should have these serials written on it: 837-11076-01 IC BD SATURN MAIN VA0 CCI 171-6874D PC BD SATURN MAIN VA0 CCI This is the earliest documented retail motherboard serial, if your machine is earlier, it might have 171-6874C or B or such. edit2: I'm comparing it again to your old pictures, and the strange stuff I see (compared to stock hst-3200 machines) are: - SCU is a metal top chip, never seen higher res pics of that - BIOS is eeprom (need to check the label for more info on contents) - SH1 has some sticker on it, never seen that either - SCSP is a Yamaha Engineering Sample, I've seen this in Sophia devkits before - some caps near the power connector are different from the final board, more elongated - seems to be some small extra component near the edge, next to those caps - likely the fan connector that was later removed as it was unnecessary. This is what I can tell from those old blurry shots. Considering the small difference on the board - the fan conector - that board is likely not a 171-6874D but an earlier version, C or B or even A. It would be cool if you could do high-res screenshots. I'm really interested in getting more info from that machine.
Like I said, if you posted this a week earlier, I would've bought this outright... I can only hope that the early machine I bought is anything like yours on the inside. That would allow me to map down when they started manufacturing various Saturn components, slowly backtracing the origin of the machine.
Turns out the early console I bought (serial B40 004930) has no early components like yours, except for the hitachi marked PLL. So, I'm waiting for your pictures with all the more interest. Without a modchip or a boot disc? As far as I know the Sophia has the exact same copy protection scheme as the retail Saturn (it even has the same CD Block and an almost identical cd drive).
No mod chip or boot disk. I've run Sonic Extreme, as well as the EWJ and Scud betas that were released here. I've also run my Duck SDK disc, which is on a Mega CD-R, on the Sophia. There is one photo left in my collection thread that shows the Duck disc running on the Sophia, the rest seem to have disappeared over the years.
Ah damn! I'm still very interested in this!! All depends how much you want, and how much it'll cost to get it over here, but I'll see what I can do!
Yikes, a Barbie collection ousts a harmless Saturn? Looks like you are local-ish to me - now that's something that doesn't happen every day on here! I'd be happy to drop some hard cash down on this one... that is of course if you can't build a hidden cave under the cabinet in time... The stair construction would probably be the most time consuming part, maybe a temporary ladder would suffice! :wink-new:
Out of interest, how much would you expect for this thing, because right now I'm considering selling a lot of my stuff so I can raise money for it. I'm collecting Saturns with different boards in them in order to write guides, comparisons, galleries, etc., and to track down the history of the console (and starting from there, eventually all of Segas hardware), so this machine would be an important piece for my research. It is likely that I won't be able to outbid anyone here though, in which case I'd chip in for Retrojunkie so he can get it, he's at least as much interested in Sega stuff as I am.
Hahaha, well just let us know when you are keen to sell and what sort of dollar value you are after. More than happy to lay a bit down for this to help Druid with this massive task he is undertaking. And if it gives me a chance to poke around inside a rare Saturn that is always a bonus Edit: That reminds me, Druid II did you notice those new Aiwa Mega-CD Game Unit photos in your FTP?
Well, can I ask you to make pictures until then? I really want to see more of the insides of this machine. Indeed. Also I need to step my game up because at this rate you are going to beat me to everything I want to do (galleries, modchip install guides, etc). Yeah, I've seen the pics, thanks a lot as always!
It's not something super secret, I just asked Retrojunkie to ftp over his galleries because getting them one by one from his sites would take ages, even if I hooked up a script that automatically got them (have to edit the url so the google image host loads higher resolution pics too).
That and Google restricts uploaded images to 2048 on the longest edge unless I want to pay for storage... pffft... storage fees! The originals have a bit of weight to them at 3456 x 2304 and allow for a good zooming provided the lighting conditions were decent at the time and I didn't move the camera too much. I look forward to seeing the end result of all this image and data collecting. It's not a race, geez, I've got no real content except the pictures on my site anyway. There just isn't enough time in the day, ever!