Sega Genesis 1 RGB to VGA Options/Issues ( Pics !! )

Discussion in 'Sega Discussion' started by The Moe, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    Hi all,


    Thank you all for this wonderful resource... Really great info...



    Well, after a long research I decided to create a reliable medium to play Sega Genesis games on the original model 1 hardware and get the video to be played on modern day LCD monitors/TVs Without sacrificing the quality of the picture. As you might know, some of the retro game consoles were designed to be compatible with their era's mediums, CRTs mostly to view their video output. Unfortunately, with the CRT's stars dimming and the demand for LCD, LED Plasma TVs/monitors and projectors is overwhelming. The old consoles were struggling to get a good quality picture on the new screens and many people were frustrated with this until they came up with a series or solutions for this issue. In Many cases this involves taking the RGB signal, in which many of the retro consoles are able to produce natively, right out of the stock A/V port or internally but still possible to harness with some modifications.


    Anyways, I knew that the Sega Genesis 1 / Mega Drive 1 models have native RGB output right from the A/V port... So after some research and pinout studies I decided to obtain the following hardware:


    1. A high quality, multi wire shielded cable. Preferably with mini triple coaxial design plus sync wires and individual foil shields to minimize crosstalk. About 2 Ft long.


    2. A 262 DIN U male connector. (Fits the MD/Genesis 1 A/V port).


    3. A decent multi-input to VGA converter ( I say decent cause if you want the top-of-line converters you probably need to be prepared to pay some big money for it, anywhere from several hundred to several thousand Dollars actually for new, certain models.


    4. A variety of connectors, hookup supplies and an enclosure to house the device.


    So, I came across this converter, a CGA, EGA,RGB and YPbPr to VGA converter from eBay. Simple, PCB design with no enclosure made even more appealing to me. I managed to find a near perfect size plastic enclosure online to house the board. I had the chance to test the converter on a Dreamcast using the DC VGA cable. So, even when the DC can produce VGA signal with a high enough MHz (I believe 31) to be accepted in most of the modern LCD monitors without modifications/conversions. So, even when I couldn’t cay that the converter was “converting" in that test, I got to see that it was otherwise operational. There was a clean signal on the VGA output, the OSD menu (yes, the converter has an OSD menu, very simple, yet nice and straight to the point :nod:). Was visible and active. All the features on that menu did what they were supposed to do. So, I was happy with the performance.
    I'll be attaching some pics too.


    I decided to keep things nice a neat (my OCD:banghead:). Everything I make must have that stock (factory) look to it for me to live with it, otherwise it won't happen. Also, the other advantage of keeping this nice and clean is that it would make it a bit easier to use the same setup for multiple systems/consoles without major adjustments: All you need is to build a neat individual RGB cable with a male D sub 15 on one end for each of the consoles to hook up to the converter using a female D sub 15 connector I would fit on the enclosure's side that has multiple wires for RGBS signals to be carried into the board using pin connectors for quick swapping if that was needed.


    So, I found the cable for the job :thumbsup:The Belkin F3H982-06 All Black male to male VGA cable... It has three individually foil shielded actual mini coax cables for RGB, 3 single wire also individually shielded lines. Plastic and foil outer shield, all wrapped up an a mesh wire static sleeve shield connected to the metal parts of the connectors! I can't ask for anything better especially when it is all under 8 mm in diameter total cover and all!!
    Then I cut the cable a bit over the 2' long mark and soldered the DIN U 262 Connecter to the loose wire side corresponding the R, G, and B from the Genesis to the cores of the R.G. and B of the cable, combining the three (R.G.B mesh wire grounds together and soldering that to the Ground from the Genesis. Finally, got one of the 2 sync wires on the VGA cable to serve as the Sync from the Genesis.


    The problem:


    Can't get any Genesis Video on the monitor, just the converter menu is on with black screen background. I have tried many configurations to hook the RGBS from the Genesis to many of the input ports on the board without much luck :confused:what am I doing wrong here? Or, let me rephrase this: Anyone knows how to use this converter with a Sega Genesis 1?
    Thank you all in advance.
    Here are some pics, the PCB converter. The Genesis DIN U to D sub 15 Cable, the D sub 15 to individual barrel connector cable, and some other pics. A rough sketch of my plan here...
     
  2. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    Pics !

    Sorry, I hit enter before I attached the pics, here they are:
     

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  3. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 Keyboard Error: Press F1 to Continue

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    I have that same board. Its probably because you have not sorted the sync out.

    There is a guide on mmmonkey.co.uk that covers what you need. Look in top right of we page. Im not at a pc right now, so can't directly link you
     
  4. Druid II

    Druid II Officer at Arms

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    See, this is why you shouldn't color your post fonts.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 Keyboard Error: Press F1 to Continue

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  6. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    Druid II ... Oh man! Sorry, Actually, I didn't think I ever messed mith the font color or anything similar... My bad... :)

    Bad_Ad84 : Thank you SO MUCH for all your help. I have yet to explore the link but I just wanted to thank you first for the nice gesture..
     
  7. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    Great info. Thanks again, although I do have a couple of questions:

    1. I have read all the info there on that site, but it seems to be focusing more on modifying the converter and also the use of a scart cable too. In my setup, I want to bypass the idea of using a scart considering that I already have an 8 Pin DIN U 262 connector and I live in the U.S. So, is there a way to get an RGB signal out of the Genesis/MD 1 that can be used into that converter?

    2. As you probably know, the converter we have has the RGBS ( 5 pin ) input connector, see pic. The board has the folowing symbols prited on it R G B G S. Isn't that Red Green Blue Ground and Sync from the Geesis/MD outpot? I have tried connecting them to the Genesis without luck. Am I missing something here ?

    Thanks
     

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  8. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 Keyboard Error: Press F1 to Continue

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    If you modify the convert, it will work with all consoles.

    its just a case of stripping the sync from composite video and using that on its own. You cant use composite video for sync directly.

    Scart does not matter, as if you look at the guide he is going SCART to VGA lead for use on the board - scart is just a connector, it makes no difference what you use long as the signals goto the right pins.


    All you need to do is follow that webpage, but rather than having a SCART -> VGA (Dsub 15) you just go DIN -> VGA. signals will be identical to that page, just ignore the scart connector.

    I do not see why you are going DIN -> VGA -> VGA > Header it makes no sense.


    In short, make your cable from the console (DIN) goto the correct pins on the DSUB15 (VGA) so it matches the table on that link. Then modify the board as per the guide.

    If you need to make cables for any other consoles, follow the same process but just swap the connector console side for the correct one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  9. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    Bad_ad,

    Thanks again. Well, the reason I decided to go with the Console=>VGA Connector and VGA connector=> board is to ba able to fit the second VGA connector ( female Dsub 15) on the plastic enclosure I have to make for a clean/quick connect/disconnect point whenever I need to swap consoles. This way, and by having a disgnated cable for each system/console I can swap them without having wires sticking out of the enclosure that's it.

    Another question here... I do understand your point about the need to strip out the sync out of the composite video output. But, I was under the impression that the MD/Genesis HAS a sync out AND a composite video out in seperate pins on the DIN port. So, actually I have that C-sync connected to pin 13 for H sync and then switched it to pin 14 in the D sub 15 when I didn't get any video the first time. Unfortunatly, both tries were unsuccessful.

    Here's a pic of the Genesis pinout I have considered for that c-sync I mentioned.
     

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  10. FritoFredrik

    FritoFredrik Member

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  11. pablomaldito

    pablomaldito Active Member

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    Have you had any luck with this? I also can't get my model 1 genesis to cooperate with the CGA to VGA board. I tried using sync from pin 11 of the CXA1145P as suggested by FritoFredrik's link, but that doesn't seem to work with the CGA to VGA board. The best I can manage is a frozen partial image which only updates when I disconnect and reconnect the sync.

    I really wanna get this working because I've seen it in action with my Super Famicom, and it looks great. It handles the 240p signal so much better than most HDTVs' built in scalers, which get confused and try to treat it like 480i. In addition to that the RGB output would look so much nicer than the Genesis Model 1's crappy composite video. At least that's the impression I got from the frozen partial images I managed to force out of it lol.
     
  12. pablomaldito

    pablomaldito Active Member

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    Update: Tried LM1881 and still no luck :(. I've got a 32x on the way, so hopefully I can pull a usable signal from that. If that doesn't work out either, I guess it's time to consider a model 2.
     
  13. TmEE

    TmEE Peppy Member

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    I never had problems with that upscaler board and my MDs and I used bare Csync from the AV out
     
  14. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    WOW !! What is your secret ! I am the original poster and I have tried 5 different model 1s ( High def and non high def ) and tried the Csync from port 7 out of the AV port with no luck whatsoever... :(

    So, PLEASE give us some details about the setup... What wire goes where...Which imput port are you using on the scaler board ( use my pic to refrence if possible ) the works... Cause I'm about to just give up on this setup ...


    Cheers!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
  15. pablomaldito

    pablomaldito Active Member

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    ugh, no luck with 32x & model 2 either. This board seems to hate Sega's North American systems
     
  16. The Moe

    The Moe Member

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    Ahh, Amen to that brother...

    BTW, I would like to confirm that the board DOES work with the Dreamcast when I connect it via VGA. I can see and work the built in menu but that's about it...

    Anyone else can shed some light here ?

    Thanks
     
  17. pablomaldito

    pablomaldito Active Member

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    I gave up and just did an S-video mod on the 32x. At least that frees my model 1 from the accursed rainbows :p .
     
  18. Melchior

    Melchior Rising Member

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  19. Druid II

    Druid II Officer at Arms

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    Couldn't you try tapping hsync and vsync directly from the megadrive instead of splitting the c-sync signal? It's pins 41 (vsync) and 43 (hsync) on the vdp (and pin 42 is c-sync). (edit: on a model 1 machine)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  20. TmEE

    TmEE Peppy Member

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    Hsync is open drain, Vsync is probably open drain too, so you need a bit of extra magic for it to work.
    When you stress Hsync you'll mess up VDP operation aswell
     

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