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PSX DESR related questions

Discussion in 'Rare and Obscure Gaming' started by pinepot, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. pinepot

    pinepot Rising Member

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    Hi guys,
    first off let me say you have a great online community! I've been following ASSEMbler ever since roarvgm/geocities times, registered way back in the old forum but lost track after it went down due to some software licensing issues (?)... Actually, I had already given up the video game hobby, in terms of catching up with new consoles and purchasing up-to-date games, following the demise of the Dreamcast. Well, except for some retrogaming every now and then.

    Recently, I got my hands on a PSX DESR-7000 in pretty neat condition - and working. The many decent posts, as well as the homepage by sp193 and the blog started by LeHam helped to solve a lot of my questions from the get-go. Great input, guys!

    I also found the Sony Japan FAQ very handy. For example, I wasn't sure whether the system would output games through component (D-Terminal).
    The PSX manual .pdf file available from Sony Japan's site cannot be searched and I was too lazy to read through all the Kanji, so I found this easy step-by-step guide with click-to-select pictures: http://qa.support.sony.jp/solution/S1110278024773/
    Another interesting point is the reset procedure, also not described in my manual: http://qa.support.sony.jp/solution/S1110278006559/

    Although I believe I read through most of the PSX dedicated posts at ASSEMbler, I was wondering if anyone can answer my questions, as follows:


    • Upon plugging in the power cord, the PSX starts both the fan and the hdd for a moment (power button: steady red light), sucking up to 40W until it falls back to idle mode (3-4W). Is this normal? (I am using a voltage converter capable of "up to 150W" for all of my Japanese devices except power amps, so I doubt it causes the issue)

    • My PSX is still running on 1.06. As mentioned in the manual on p. 74, the two game specific settings are reseted every time you unplug the system. Is this still the case after the most recent software update? (Obviously I unplug the PSX using the switch on a denki tap made by Sanwa, which is great if you have a lot of Japanese devices running home or abroad)

    • I‘ve learned the update discs are no longer sold by Sony Japan since end of February 2014 and thus very rare. Is it true that you can only run the updates with a legit disc?

    Thanks!
     
  2. retro

    retro Administrator Staff Member

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    Your post got flagged by the auto moderation system for having links - it's trying to stop spam, but a bit TOO efficient! ;) This might happen again for your next few posts - don't worry if they don't show up, we'll catch it in the mod queue eventually!

    Welcome back! :)
     
  3. sp193

    sp193 Well Known Member

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    It does, and you can get component output from it too (with the right cable).

    1. Yes, it's normal. The DVRP seems to be accessing the disk at that point, presumably to obtain the ID of the disk. From my memory, connecting a disk after that happens will not work.
    2. I don't have the manual, as my PSX came with nothing. What are the two settings?
    3. Yes, unfortunately. They have already shut down the PSX firmware update servers and the optical drive will only accept pressed PlayStation 2 discs. Now, I think that it's possible for the "WRI" laser to read burned discs... but Sony didn't allow users to download firmware updates onto some media (e.g. recordable CD/DVD, memory stick or USB disk) for updating the PSX.

    The PSX is the missing link between the PS2 and PS3, and you can see how they've been slowly moving over from a console that didn't support networking natively to something that actually requires an Internet connection for all features.

    Beware that if the HDD unit either dies or gets corrupted, the PSX will become less than a PSX (The XMB will be lost, and so will most of its functionality). And if you didn't make a FMCB card before that happens, then it will be truly useless (you won't be even able to do anything with it).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  4. pinepot

    pinepot Rising Member

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    @retro: Thanks for the warm welcome and for unflagging the post. At first I was surprised but then saw the explanation in the feedback forum. I might have read over that part upon registering. No problem though.

    @sp193: Thanks for the feedback. Fortunately I've had a short D-Terminal-to-Component cable laying around. Output works for games and video-in signals alike.

    As for the manual, you can download it from the Sony Japan support homepage btw. Well, the two options in question are located in the game settings ("fast loading" and "texture interpolation"; see: http://youtu.be/Z6ZtEKX9KU0). It would be interesting to know if a newer firmware will permanently enable these settings. I yet have to hunt down an update disc when I'm back in Japan.

    And thanks for the heads-up regarding the HDD… I'm fully aware of the fact that the machine can die anytime. On the other hand, it's in surprisingly good condition and some of the flaws/misunderstandings described in other forums or some YT videos seem to arise from people not having read the manual or messing with the Japanese settings. Nevertheless, the next step will be to create a FMCB "insurance" following LeHam's handy guide on YT.
     
  5. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    Even without a HDD, the PSX is excellent for playing games in OPL through network because it has 8MB of IOP memory and OPL can actually take advantage of it.

    Also you might be able to run it with a 40GB SONY HDD (without the XMB though). You can format the HDD and install games to it using the internal drive or network port.
     
  6. pinepot

    pinepot Rising Member

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    @l_oliveira: Thanks for the feedback. I have read through the lengthy and very informative threads regarding the PSX HDD and means of exchanging or "repairing" it. Although I didn't understand some of the very technical details, it was amazing to learn - in retrospect - how you guys found out about the HDD structure, decryption and issues associated with the proprietary architecture of the PSX throughout the months, sometimes years. Another reason for me to stick to ASSEMbler for, well, those obscure systems, right? ;)


    Btw, has anyone tried third-party controllers with the PSX yet?
    For example, BEMANI or Densha de Go! controllers, or did anyone try using a PS2-to-USB adapter to connect newer Sony and third-party controllers released for PS2 games?
    I read in another forum topic that someone has had a problem with a first-gen Sony controller. Moreover, the PSX manual states that various hardware and software, although supported by the PS2 at that time, is not compatible with the PSX...
     
  7. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    A lot of things won't work with the PSX simply because the memory card slots are on the front and the controller ports are on the rear. That's why you can't use multitaps in it, for example.

    Other things won't work because it has only one USB port and they might require two. And a couple of things won't work because the machine is different internally (more RAM on both EE and IOP CPUs).

    About that "reset" process, it also works like that on normal PS2s when a HDD is connected. If it crashes, the only way to shut it down is hold the reset button (flick the switch on the back is the same thing as pull the cord out of the wall)...
     
  8. Unknown-Organization

    Unknown-Organization <B>Site Supporter 2014</B>

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    I love PSX DVR! Something unique about this PSX system just like Dreamcast. Maybe has something to do with Great Console with great failure in the market. That what makes unique I think.
    Well I own the PSX DVR (7700 model) I bought it in Japan 10 years ago and brought it back home in UK, it never been powerd up once until the very first time last month. Since I finally bought a Plug stepdown converter.

    7700 model is the best and reliable model you can get right? Plus I hoping the XMB menu would have a English text instead of Japaneses text in the future software mod.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
  9. pinepot

    pinepot Rising Member

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    @l_oliveira: Thanks for the input. The Japanese manual is pretty straightforward with regard to Sony products (un-)supported. However, no word on all those crazy third-party controllers, which btw. are one of the few reasons for me to get a PSX in the first place.

    Perhaps some folks with a PSX and access to a variety of controllers, such as drums, train controllers or pop'n music pads are willing to share their experience bit by bit.

    Unfortunately there is no FAQ (is there...?) other than what I found @psx-scene, i.e. is either information covered in the Japanese manual, or information concerning the XMB and HDD changes.
     
  10. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    In the end, it's just a PlayStation2. So if these controllers fit, I see no reason for them to not work with the PSX.

    Let me give you a example. In the PSX manual they mention you can't use a PocketStation with it but the people who wrote the PSX manual apparently don't know much about the PocketStation unit. The PocketStation unit "buttons plate" can be detached and in that state you should have no issues using the PocketStation with your PSX:

    [​IMG]

    Keep in mind that the PSX is not a SCEI product, it's a main SONY corp. product, based on technology that were developed at their SCEI branch combined with main branch technology. SONY people are not obligated to be 100% familiar with products from the SCEI branch... lol
     
  11. pinepot

    pinepot Rising Member

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    @l_oliveira: Thanks for the insight! So I guess any third-party controller supporting a PS2 game should work on the PSX, provided that it fits the controller ports on the back.

    However, from what I understand the PSX USB port cannot handle controllers, right?
    Does anyone know if a PS2-to-USB adapter could work for those PS2 controllers that came with a USB plug (e.g. Shinkansen controller)?
     
  12. sp193

    sp193 Well Known Member

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    If the software can support such peripherals, it will probably work as long as it is physically compatible with the PSX.

    @l_Oliveira, RAM size should not matter because probably no game was ever coded to require exactly 32MB of EE RAM and 2MB of IOP RAM. Doing such a thing would already make it more difficult to bring it from a TOOL to retail set. Not to mention that while in PS2 mode, the PSX EE kernel will report 32MB of RDRAM and its TLB would have been remapped to fail accesses to beyond the 32MB region.

    I'm quite sure that you would agree with me that any incompatibilities should have been from the different hardware. Different from a retail set, I mean.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  13. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    It doesn't fail accesses. It just return zeroes.

    IOP on the other side, likes to crash when you access illegal memory regions (lol
     
  14. sp193

    sp193 Well Known Member

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    How did you test that? If the kernel is in PSX mode, it will definitely allow full access to all 64MB.

    I got crashes (presumed to be TLB-related) upon returning to user mode, after an invocation of ExecPS2. That was after the EE kernel was set to PS2 mode.
    It turned out that the stack was located right at the end of the 64MB of RDRAM, which seemed to have become inaccessible after TLB reinitialization in PS2 mode.

    You will get a bus error. The EE does this too, although you're probably not getting such nonsense when you try to read past the 32MB offset in EE RAM on the PSX because it's still mapped to something.

    Try reading from regions beyond 64MB. It will most likely grant you a bus exception too.
     
  15. svotib

    svotib <B>Site Supporter 2013</B><BR><B>Site Supporter 20

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    But interestingly, Yabasic on PSX-DESR will also use 32 MB of RAM or can 64? Fractal seemingly draws a little faster than the retail PS2 (or it seemed to me?):-(
     
  16. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    Depends on how you boot it. I have a customized loader here which boots the thing with full 64MB exposed. If you're using FMCB to boot it will boot with 32MB of EE RAM.

    But then IOP aways have 8MB of RAM regardless of what happens and all memory is aways usable. So I can imagine things working better.

    More IOP RAM DOES help a ton with Open PS2 Loader as it has more room for the CDVDMAN buffers and games don't get it's memory squeezed dry as it happens on standard retail PS2s while running Open PS2 Loader.

    Did you try OPL SMB mode on a PSX yet ? It's awesome lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  17. svotib

    svotib <B>Site Supporter 2013</B><BR><B>Site Supporter 20

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    Yabasic I installed on the HDD and load it from there. Yes, OPL SMB I tried it, it looks very promising.:)
     
  18. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    Well, very recently SP193 reworked networking and USB modules on OPL. That increases potentially the benefits of having more RAM for running games from both USB and SMB modes.

    Another side effect of having extra RAM is that you can load debugging modules and test things without disrupt the game operation.
     
  19. pinepot

    pinepot Rising Member

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    Bumping this thread with regard to one of my initial questions...

    So I'm a big fan of the "Densha de GO" series. However, according to a variety of Japanese language sources, and the game manual (e.g. Densha de GO FINAL PS2), some of the later PS2 titles of the series are not compatible with the dedicated train controller:
    superetendard777-img600x448-1400813060mi9nde48060.jpg

    Instead, they rely on any of the following three controllers:
    Controller Type 2:
    600x450-2014111100002.jpg
    Shinkansen Controller:
    ppsh41modm1943-img600x450-1414061377icnmol20950.jpg
    Tram Controller:
    taka0815-img600x496-1415629048kjfihe30767.jpg

    However, as you can see all these are USB controllers. That is probably not an issue with any PS2 or above. But did anyone have a chance to try these USB controllers on their PSX DESR? After all the system only features one USB port and no information on this topic can be found in the manual, apart from using storage devices...
    Before spending about 200 bucks incl. shipping and tax on one of these controllers, I'd really love to know if they will actually work with the PSX. Thanks!
     
  20. l_oliveira

    l_oliveira Officer at Arms

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    The "other" USB port on the PSX is used internally for the Memory Stick card reader. Only if the games in question do require that the controller is plugged to that EXACT port it could be a issue. I don't know so I can't give you a proper answer.
     

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